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10/26/02 9:03:40 AM Eastern Standard Time


Cliff's List Website

Please go to the website for a full list of the rules, disclaimers,
suggested links and referrals to other seduction sites and explanations of
what this list is all about.  Seminar, workshop & conference schedules are
on the website also, as is a glossary of terms that may be used here that
you may be unfamiliar with.


Cliff's Comment:  This guy Zan is a killer!!  The following are selected
posts culled from Mystery's Lounge, reposted here with permission from the
author who is a new subscriber to these emails.

First of all, here is a little story. Have any of you guys seen the movie
"Malena"? Great fucking movie. Go buy or rent it. The star of this movie is
Monica Bellucci. Ah, bellissimo! She is so beautiful. In fact, she
approaches my inherent Platonic "ideal" of a woman. I mentally make a
comparison between all the girls I meet and her - she is my standard. And I
have done so for the past 13 or 14 years. Why, you ask? Well, therein lies
my story.
Back in 1988 or so, I spent some time in Milan. And I met Monica Bellucci.
She was about 18 or 19 then (I was about 24) and she was modelling there.
This was before her film career. I met her in a small town outside of Milan
called Treviglio. At a small cafe. She was with a girlfriend. She was
beautiful. So of course, I talked to her. Turns out she had just signed up
with Elite Models and was just starting to get some work.
And I ended up spending five days with her. Great memories. Every day, we
would ride the train from Treviglio into Milan and back again. And man, I
remember I was absolutely smitten by this girl. But my time in Milan was up
- and I had to return to Canada. So five days was all we had. I still have
some Super8 video somewhere of her waving goodbye to me and blowing me a
kiss at Milan's Grand train station. Man, did I hate to leave her.
Did we have sex? Alas, gentle reader, we did not. Even though I was
modelling at the time, I was AFC. But we did kiss and make out a lot. Fine,
fine memories.
Anyway, I returned to Canada, and her modelling career took off. And now
she is in major movies. Besides "Malena", she is also in "Brotherhood of
the Wolf" - another movie that rawks! And "Under Suspicion" with Gene
Hackman. Plus a whole bunch of French and Italian films. And she is going
to be in the new Matrix movie.
I always wonder about her and wonder if she remembers me. lol  End of story.

Now then, on a completely different tangent, I have thought a lot lately
about the game. My game, in particular. You might notice I don't write too
many field reports. I think it is because I have no idea what to write. I
rarely remember the things I say to a girl. In fact, I probably say
different things to different girls all the time. When I meet a girl, I
just start talking. Voltaire said "Give me five minutes to talk away my
ugly face, and I will bed the queen of France." Exactly how I feel. When I
first approach a girl, I might get a dismissive wave or a bitch shield.
Same as any one. But given the chance to talk to a girl for any length of
time, it is ridiculously easy for me. Once I start talking, I have a very
good chance of succeeding with the girl.
I don't really use any routines. Or any gimmicks for that matter. My
approach is exactly like BadBoy's - only slightly more rakish. In other
words, my game is all cocky/funny. Everything I say is accompanied with a
smile and a wink. Like an inside joke between her and I. In my opinion, a
girl should never have a fucking clue about where she stands with you or if
you are serious in what you just said.
A lot of our literature and doctrine stresses the importance of "eliciting
values". In other words, find out what makes her tick - what is important
to her - and then feed it back to her in the context of you. What strikes
me about my method is that I never do that. Exactly the opposite of what we
are taught. When I am attempting to pick up a girl, I never listen to a
word she says. I interrupt her constantly. I ignore everything she says,
like it has no importance. I give great eye contact and kino, but
occasionally look over her shoulder and smile at other girls. This is so
counter to what we all have learned as being so important - elicit values.
Do any of you other guys ignore values? Or is it just me?
To illustrate, I tried real hard to remember what I said to this girl I was
talking to. Note that I really don't care about her values:

(fluff, fluff, fluff)
HER: So what do you do?
ME: (leaning in close to her ear) I give women pleasure - if they desire it...
HER: (smiling) Uh, I mean for work. What do you do for work?
ME: Well, I am a lowly computer nerd. And you?
HER: I am studying law at BlahBlah University and I also work part time at...
ME: You know what, HB? I think I will make you my new girlfriend.
HER: Uh... what!?
ME: Yeah, I just decided that you will make a nice girlfriend for me.
HER: Nice try. I already have a boyfriend.
ME: Well that's good. It gives you something to do when I am not around...
(gold, my friends... whoever came up with this line should be inducted into
the PUA Hall of Fame)
HER: Well, I don't think my boyfriend would be happy if I was seeing
someone else.
ME: I have no response to that. Tell you what... I will make you my
favorite girlfriend.
HER: (laughing) Um, are you deaf? I have a boyfriend.
ME: Please speak English. I don't understand that last phrase...
HER: Haha, you don't even know me.
ME: (smile, wink) Ah yes... But I know what I like. And I am used to winning.
HER: Not this time...
ME: (pouting) No? So tell me, HB, are you my sweetie? (big smile)
HER: (laughing) No! Go away!
ME: Do you want to see me again?
HER: I can't! Boyfriend, remember?
ME: That's not what I asked. Do you want to see me again?
HER: Maybe.
ME: Give me your number.
HER: (laughing) No! You are a bad man!
ME: How can you be my favorite girlfriend if I don't even have your number?
HER: I will give you my cell. I never have it on, but you can leave me a
message. Do you have a pen?
ME: I will remember it.
HER: (smiling) It's xxx-xxxx. I don't even know why I am talking to you.
You are bad news.
ME: I know why. Because you are in love with me.
HER: (laughing) Hardly. I don't even know you.
ME: Oh yes you do. What we have between us is age old. We were meant to be
lovers. It is in the stars.
HER: Oh really...
ME: Of course! I see it in your eyes. You and I will be together. It's just
a matter of when.
HER: You're bad...
This whole conversation was carried out with my arm around her and a "just
kidding" attitude. Lots of kino, eye contact, etc. And smiling and winking.
And she was smiling and laughing throughout. I think it was Style who said
"If you get them laughing, the rest is easy". So true. I think you need to
get women in the state that James Bond does. They know he's a player but
they still want to be around him anyway. Ha ha, the women you talk to
should be thinking the phrase "Oh James, you're incorrigible!" Exactly the
right state for the girl to be in. And if another pretty girl walks by, I
stop my conversation and smile at her. Right in front of the one I am
trying to pick up.
Another thing I said to a different girl last weekend at a club:
ME: So you coming to my party tonight at my house?
HER: I don't think so... Well, maybe. Who's all going to be there?
ME: (smile, wink) Well, so far just you and me...
HER: (laughing) I have a boyfriend.
ME: Great! I have a girlfriend. So your boyfriend won't mind. Just two
friends getting together...
HER: You have a girlfriend? So, what's your girlfriend's name?
ME What day is today?
HER: Friday.
ME: (smile, wink) Well then, my girlfriend's name is Maria...
The point is, never let them know if you are being serious or not. And if
they call you a jerk or a player, admit it. Someone posted here recently
that doing this completely deflates all of their objections. This is
absolutely true. You admit it, and suddenly they have no more ammunition.
Great tactic, whoever posted that.
Dealing with the Boyfriend objection:
Pretty tough to destroy a BF - unless you just happen to catch her when her
relationship is on a downward slope.
Usually what I do is something like this:
HB: I have a boyfriend.
ME: Of course you do. Does it make you feel happy?
HB: (says something here; doesn't matter what it is)
ME: Well, we're going to have to be really careful when we sneak around and
have our secret trysts. (wink, wink, lol, j/k)
HB: (smiles) Sorry, I can't. NOT gonna happen...
ME: Of course not! I would expect no less. So, let's see... how about this
Saturday evening? Tell him you have to meet the girls for a Tupperware
party or something and sneak over to my house. (wink, wink, lol, j/k)
HB: You're bad! (smiling) You know I can't do that.
ME: Absolutely not! How could you ever live with yourself? Hmm... I'll put
the champagne on ice at around 7 PM, so if you get to my house by around 8
PM, it should be perfectly delightful. (wink, wink, lol, j/k)

I just keep playing around like that. Women love the notion of forbidden
fruit. It conjures up the image of passionate embraces in a back alley in
Paris.  I might not get her that night. But every time I see her after
that, I always repeat the theme and joke with her about how we are going to
sneak around, etc.
A long, long email seduction...

This is a long email exchange I've had with a girl named Kelly for the last
few weeks. The jury's still out on this one - don't know how it will end
up. But she is leaving in about a week or so back to school. But this sure
has been fun.

Background on her: I met her through a friend of mine, Tyson. He likes her,
and so do most guys. She is very sultry and beautiful. Definitely my type.
She has a boyfriend but he is away in a different city. I have talked to
her several times, and tried to bust a few moves on her, but she is adamant
that she loves her boyfriend and wants to be "just friends".

She goes to the clubs all the time here. I always talk to her and lay on
major kino. And one night about a month ago, Tyson and I gave her a ride
back to her house. She accidentally left her keys in my car on the seat.
But they were the keys for her apartment where she is moving back to, so
she was not desperate to get them back. She just needs them before she goes
back home. Somehow I had obtained her email address, and this is the
exchange that ensued.

Also, please note that I saw her fairly often during this exchange, mostly
with three or four of her AFC friends. And I had her keys in my car the
whole time. If she would have just simply asked for them back, I would have
given them to her. lol

I am putting this transcript here for instructional purposes - mostly to
myself for future exchanges. Some of the stuff here is borrowed shamelessly
- I will try to give credit where I can. And please feel free to borrow
from me, if it will help your game.
Hey Kelly,

Remember me?
Tell me your number and I will call you. You can come get your keys at my
house. I promise I will be good...

Hello there Zan.

I really like the way you phrase that..."want your keys, then come and get
em." So is that the way it is. I'm afraid of giving you my number...
Alrighty then have a good one and hey Send me some pics of me on the boat,

Ah my dear sweet Kelly...

I told you I would be good if you came to my house to get your keys. You
mustn't be afraid. :-)

And as far as that seventeen year old... well, I only have eyes for you...
of course. I know you have a boyfriend. But hey, that's only natural.
That's like saying you know how to tie your shoes or something. Uh, it's
pretty obvious that someone like you would have a boyfriend. But I am not
concerned with him... I am concerned with you. After all, I have
girlfriends too.

Ah Kelly, I don't know you very well, but I know what I like. I know you
are moving away and that's cool. But there is NOTHING to stop us from
getting together before you have to leave.

[snip Natural Woman pattern here]

But I digress. Enough of that. So you're only house sitting at that place
until Friday, huh? Alright then, I just cleared my schedule for Thursday
evening. Clear yours as well because we are going to get together. Don't
worry - somewhere safe  ;-)

Well Good Afternoon there Zan, and what a beautiful afternoon it is.

About your "little" proposition? Let me think about that ... um... NO. Your
analysis of women, although very interesting, yeah it's not working. Nice
try though. Do you have that in a saved file so that you can insert it
whenever you may find it appropriate!? Or did you type that up just for
me!? Whatever the case As a culturally programmed woman, I think
that is what you referred to Us women as isn't it, I guess I just have some
standards that I live by. Too bad hey.

But hey don't get too discouraged I'm sure it works on plenty of others...
so good Luck on that venture... as I am sure you will find one.
What more can I say...

Yes, the sun feels very good to me today. I love its warmth on my skin
through my office window. Makes me feel alive and very serene. And makes me
not want to get any work done. In my mind, I am on a beach, drinking a
margarita, with white sand, and glass-clear blue water. I am, after all, a
dreamer. Of course, I was about to invite you on my little mind vacation,
but you seem to be rather bitchy this afternoon. So, I will continue day
dreaming alone.

My analysis of women doesn't work? Nonsense. It's not working for you,
perhaps. But it is spot on accurate. This is absolutely true of women. Of
course, some choose to suppress it or ignore their true feelings and the
passion that they have bottled up inside them. You, for example. I talk to
that inner woman - the natural woman - the one deep, deep inside you. The
one that used to run through the fields smelling and picking flowers. The
one that wanted to grow up to be a beautiful princess or a ballerina. I
speak to the deepest part of who you truly are. It is my gift... and my curse.

Bullshit, you say. Well, then let me ask you this, Kelly. At one point in
your life did that part of you fade away? When did you first start to quiet
that passion in you? To start to bottle up your dreams? When did you decide
to settle for normalcy and the comfort of traditional relationships? Trust
me. Years from now, you will look back on this exchange with me, and you
will realize that I was right. When you are consumed by the banality of
your career and the ennui of your relationship; when you long for passion;
when you want to run away and be free again, you will remember these words.
That is what I offer. Passion. Perhaps it's true that I can't stay. But my
stay is always memorable.

It might seem preposterous or arrogant to you, but I absolutely do see
women differently than most men. I assure you I am not being arrogant. I
approach this as a humble student. And with this approach, I have come to
know a lot about women. And the most important thing I know is that no two
are alike. I have had the pleasure of sharing myself with many women and
each of them has added to my life. I am happier because of it.

Discretion is everything to me - and your honor. I never kiss and tell.
Neither Tyson nor Chris know anything about my love life. It is simply
because I respect women immensely. I would never compromise their
reputations. And I guard their feelings. I know you think I am a player.
But I never play with emotions. A player is dishonest - he will say
anything to get a woman into bed. I, on the other hand, love many women and
see the beauty in each of them. And I am completely honest about that. Not
that any of this applies to you. You are being very clear you want nothing
to do with me.

This is not some venture or experiment that I am doing. As I said before, I
know what I like and I am just very direct, I guess. This isn't a game in
which I am trying to score. Hardly. As I said, I have girlfriends - all of
whom I adore.

I just saw something in you that appealed to me on a deep level. Made me
pause and think about you. Something behind those dark eyes.

Do with this as you will, Kelly. I will get your keys to you somehow.

Note: I saw her right about here on a Saturday night at a nightclub, and
she gave me shit about how she heard I was just a womanizer and how she
believes that I was just playing with her and not sincere in my emails. So
I told her to piss off if she was going to act like that. And then I walked
away. Major take away. What's funny is that I am always sincere in the
things I say. If I say lovey-dovey stuff to a girl, I really do feel it.
It's just that sometimes the feeling doesn't stay for long - lol.

I was a real jerk to her. Called her on her disrespect, ignored her, etc. I
saw her a couple of times here, but just acted like she didn't exist. Out
of the corner of my eye, though, I could see her straining for my
attention. I just continued to ignore her. So she kind of sucked up in this
email that I got several days later.

Oh Zan Zan Zan.

What have I done? I am not really sure, but whatever the case I seem to
have the wrath of Zan. Okay so maybe it isn't that bad, but it's something.
I don't know what we were fussing about at the nightclub because in the
whole scheme of things does it really matter? You can't blame me for making
assumptions about you that are true in some situations.

So you were sincere...fine I believe you. But it really doesn't change
anything. I have decided that we are simply both the type of people that
will get into "discussions" just because. Maybe we enjoy it!? However, my
proposal and solution - whatever. Let's be civil. Don't worry I am not
asking you to be my friend since I know you have no intention that way, but
hey the least we could do is pretend that we know and like each other in
social situations - oh, for the sake of those around us and to indeed enjoy
our own time.

What do you say? Heck who knows maybe you won't run into me again, but I
doubt that will be the case. In fact, I like hanging around with you. Call
me crazy! This is really all too amusing don't you think. If anything it's
been interesting.

p.s. I really am a nice person. Promise.
Note: Because she sucked up, I changed gears to passionate and sincere
again. So I poured the cheese on thick. Mixed signals all the way...

Beautiful, sweet, enchanting, sensual, confused Kelly. What the fuck should
I do with you? Hmmm?

I like your proposal. I kind of miss you too. And don't worry. I know you
are a nice person.

Ha ha, somehow I think you see through my bullshit. That's probably why I
enjoy talking to you. I talk lots and come on strong. But I have a heart. I
could never hurt you or intentionally take advantage of you or anyone. In
fact, if I ever hurt you in any way, Kelly, it would break my heart.
There's an oxymoron for you - a player with a heart.

If I wanted to, I could seduce a girl, whisper sweet nothings in her ear,
take her to bed, have my way with her, and leave her the next day. I know I
could do this, because I can talk damn well. I could do this any night of
the week. There are guys that do this, and then laugh about it the next day
with their friends. I could never do this. I respect women way too much. I
know you probably think that I do this all the time. Sure, I flirt and
carry on with girls. But, the moment I know they would go home with me if I
asked them to - when I have essentially succeeded, that's when I stop. I
just don't have the heart to take advantage of girls.

Kelly, I've come on very strong to you, but I know you know that I am
sincere - and that I would respect you and guard your feelings (and your
reputation). If you ever came home with me, would I keep my hands off you?
Nope. Not at all. My hands and my lips would explore every inch of your
body. I am very intoxicated with the thought of being with you -
emotionally and physically. If I was alone with you, I would simply want to
melt right into you... to fade into you. I don't view you as a friend. I
view you as a woman - a very sensual and intelligent woman. And I won't
apologize for that.

And would any one ever find out? Nope. Only if you told them. Would I begin
a secret and passionate love affair with you right now until you had to
leave back to your home? Absolutely. Heh, you could come over to my house
every night. I have lots of champagne. :-)

And would I view that as being wrong? No. I am a bon vivant. I like to live
well and love well. And in my mind, if two people are attracted to each
other, it is a very beautiful and natural thing. It is the melding of souls
- and the whole reason for existence is passion and romance. Always
passion. And always romance. There is nothing else on earth, Kelly. How can
that ever be wrong? That is what I meant by you and I creating our own
world - Our World. The one we create that no one knows anything about and
in which we can do what we've always dreamed of doing with no repercussions.

But I am under no illusions - I know you have a boyfriend, I know you are
leaving soon. Heck, I'm probably not even your type. In other words, you
and I were doomed from the start. So, will you and I ever live out the
scenario I described above? Probably not. But because it is such a magical
image in my mind, I keep trying with you. That's why I am so persistent.
And even though you and I may never get together, just remember one thing -
you have a fan. As you move through life, remember that. At one point in
your life, there was a guy who adored and admired you. You are very
intelligent and I like that. And frankly, you are definitely the type of
girl that I like. I love your look and the way you carry yourself. And
believe me, when I compliment a girl, it is absolutely sincere.

Your keys? Kelly, there are two ways you could get your keys. The first way
is you could come over to my house. If you got your keys this way, it would
tell me that on some level, you have heard what I have been saying. And
that some part of you finds this all a little intriguing. Don't worry. I
will be a perfect gentleman. My suggestion? This Thursday or Friday
evening. Even if you work late, come over after.

The second way you could get your keys back is to simply ask me to give
them back. To bring them to you at work or some other neutral place. Or ask
me to give them to Tyson. This would be equally effective in getting your
keys back. Truth is, you have never really simply asked me to give them
back to you. If you had asked me to give them to Tyson, I would have. I am
absolutely gracious. I have kept them only because you have never directly
asked me to return them. And this second way would also serve to send me a
very clear message from you to back off and leave you alone. That you are
not interested. If you did this, Kelly, I would immediately give your keys
to Tyson. And I would cease to bother you.

Oh hello there Zan,

I must admit that I get a bit of a kick out of the anticipating emails. And
you have ceased to disappoint that thought with your imaginative and oh so
clever responses.

So anyway, I think you are bang on for some things... Don't worry although
I may be shy in some ways, I am not naive. Obviously I would not go near
you if I really thought that you had no respect for me. I know it is all in
good fun and that it is innocent (at least on my end - and if it is not on
yours well that is okay too because I think I can handle myself).

Okay I just looked at the time so I must cut this short and say... yeah,
you are very confusing! Keys not a big deal. It is just that I randomly see
you. It is not like we hang out together. So I just wanted to make sure
that if we are at the same place at the same time, or you are near my work,
or we know that it may be likely that we may run into each other it would
be good to bring them. Something like that, okay?! That's all. I do not
know what you plan on taking from this response since you seem to have
already made up your own interpretations about the way I handle getting my
keys. There are no subliminal messages or anything. Really! Okay.

So yeah you still know where I stand. NOT going to happen. As long as you
know then whatever.

Okay really am going... so not thinking right now...tired....6am is going
to come too soon.

Bye  Kelly
So... Thursday night at my house is good for you then? Actually, I'm
available Wednesday evening as well. Let me know which one you would prefer.

I will put my bottle of Veuve Cliquot Ponsardin on ice at around 7 PM, so
it should be perfect by about 8 PM or so.
Such a sweet afternoon,
Zan, you must actually be working today- no lengthy and imaginative email
messages, only generic words. Oh you do disappoint me. However, the one you
did send was really funny. Good one.

Haha, surely it must be refreshing to interact with someone who is direct
and to the point. After all the other "normal" guys you have had in your
life. I told you I know what I like. All I can think is that it is a shame
you are moving away. Because I very much enjoy our semantic fencing. En garde!

That plus the fact that if you were not moving away, I eventually would
manage to seduce you. >;-o

And you know it too.

Let me ask this question. Since you are here and your boyfriend is not,
what are you doing for pleasure? Hmm? Perhaps you have one of those *cough*
massagers. N'est pas? Or perhaps not. For you seem like a woman who knows
how to touch her body.

And I know how, as well. When I was about eleven, a beautiful woman came to
stay with my family for a few days. One night, I watched her at the window
In her slip and noticed for the first time how a woman's underclothing
barely touches her skin; how it rides on a cushion of air as she moves, how
the silk floats about her body caressing her flesh like an angel's wing.
Then I understood how a woman must be touched.

And I can imagine you lying on your bed some nights, lights dim, all alone,
thinking - a flood of emotions flowing over you. Perhaps a scented candle,
and all kinds of wonderful smells surround you. It is timeless. It is the
way of all women. It is sensual and perfect. And all your troubles are
gone. At this very moment in time, you really know what it feels like to be
a sexy, sensual woman. And you slowly give in to your passions and you
begin to feel truly alive.

You know that feeling, don't you, Kelly? And it feels so good to just lie
there and dream... and think... and imagine... and wonder. Who do you think
about when you are lying there - with your fingertips caressing your body -
and the aura of pleasure all around you? Your boyfriend? Or me?

I thought so.


Note: the story about the woman when I was eleven is taken directly from
Don Juan Demarco - lol
Hey Zan,

I don't know what to say. You know I have a boyfriend. I just want you to
be my friend. You are confusing me. I'm not sure what to do. I'm tired and
going to sleep.

Hi Kelly,

Two things I am going to say to you, Kelly. I am going to be brutally
honest. And of course you are going to disagree. But rest assured, time
will prove me right.

Number one: The relationship you have with your boyfriend is slowly coming
to an end. It is winding down. You love him and care for him very much. And
you don't want to hurt him, but some part of you deep inside of you feels
it is time to move on. You are thinking about him less and less. You find
yourself attracted to other guys. The notion of being single again is
appealing to you. Strong words, I know. And you may not even be aware of
these thought processes going on in your subconscious. You may vehemently
deny what I have just said. But it is absolutely true.

Number two: There are a lot of guys who can sense it as well. And they are
positioning themselves to hopefully be the one that you will pick next.
Thus, you have a never ending stream of attention when you go out with the
guys. And the thing about hanging around with Tyson and Glen and Ian and
those guys is that you are perfectly safe around them. They are "nice"
guys. If you need a ride somewhere or want someone to buy you a drink or
just want some fun companionship, they will be right there. Can you go out
with Tyson or Glen or Joe as just a friend? As just one of the guys? Yes.
Can you with me? No. Because I am honest. And I view you as a woman - I
make no apologies for my desires as a man. It just is.

You see, these guys would never state their true desires around you - that
they would very much like to date you. And quite frankly, very much like to
fuck you (please forgive my crude language). If you don't believe me, then
as a test, ask one of them if they would sleep with you). They don't tell
you this because they don't want to scare you off (haha, like I have done).

You know I am right. They are safe for you because they suppress their true
desires. Instead, they do nice things for you, and say nice things to you,
and give and receive nice and warm, friendly hugs from you. All in good
fun. In this way, they are hoping that they will be so nice to you that
eventually you will start to see them in a different light. That you will
begin to be more attracted to them than all the other guys who are being
nice to you. It is an age-old ritual.

So where does that leave me? Obviously, I am not "one of the guys". You and
I don't exchange warm and friendly hugs. And play fight. I am not
interested in playing the role of the alpha male» gorilla trying to attract
the female. Let the other gorillas stand around and display personality and
beat their chests. Instead, I am going on an adventure to the other side of
the jungle to see what magic I can find over there. And if the female
gorilla wants to join me, she is welcome.

Was I sincere in the things I wrote to you?  Yes.
Do I say flowery, romantic things to lots of girls? Yes, I do.
Am I a charmer and a seducer? Of course - it is my nature.
Am I out to get laid? No. It is never about that. I can have sex if I choose.
Am I captivated by you? Yes, very much.
Do I know why? No.
What makes you different from other girls? No clue.
Am I dangerous to be alone with? Yes.

Ha ha, lots of questions, huh?

Oh Zan

I really do not know what to say. You have me speechless, or at least
unable to collect my thoughts appropriately, however I will do the best I
can to formulate some thought process...

I thought I had you all figured out as a certain type of guy. The whole
womanizer thing really turns me off. Frankly it embarrasses me because I do
not want to be associated with or cast as another one of the many girls. I
am not another one of the girls.

But... I will give you some credit... you are very perceptive and say
things that others would not and in some ways I think I like that. Don't go
thinking that you have figured it all out though because you don't know me.
And you don't know anything about my relationships.

I think everybody likes to have some attention and have change. So I like
hanging out. I hate being bored! I always have been social. And yes it may
be with guys. I really don't know what their thoughts are, but what am I
suppose to do about it? Probably not a heck of a lot. SO I guess whatever.
(I do doubt that I have "fans" in the people that you suggest).

Funny- don't know why I always respond to you!? No it is not because I
would like to sleep with you, really. Who knows why....? I guess you are
not as strange as I thought. Or you are, but I'm use to it now. You do
realize that I am rambling on and do not write the way you do. I just write
whatever without being to forward.

I am stunned by your words. Part of me wants to reach out to you. I don't
know... I don't know...

That's it, so far. I haven't heard from her in a few days now. She is
leaving in a week, so probably nothing will come of it. But this sure has
been instructive - and fun.

Our good buddy MTL_PUA saw the post by Zan and asked these questions. I
thought you might like to see the response.

MTL_PUA: HOW do you get women taking their tops off? Any specific lines you
use? Any games?

Zan:  lol, getting girls to take their tops off is a very specialized
skill. Not for the faint of heart. Ha ha, just kidding. Just get a digital
camera. Start taking pictures and then comment on how feeble the pictures
are. Say something like "Surely you can take sexier pictures than that!"
Then no matter how sexy they try to be, make sure it is never sexy enough.
Frown and shake your head. And if you have a couple girls together, they
might try to compete with each other. All in good fun.

MTL_PUA:  HOW do you get them to start kissing together? Only to friends?
Have you ever tried on 2 women YOU JUST MET?

Zan: Women love kissing - more so than men. In my experience, young women
will kiss each other with very little coaxing. Partly because they like it,
partly because women are exhibitionists, and partly because they like to
pretend that they are ultra-modern grrrlz who are into their bodies and in
touch with their sexuality.
I'll bet I could go into a club and within 5 minutes I could convince two
girls who I never met before to kiss each other. If the girls don't know
each other, it might take me a little longer - but I am sure I could do it.
If you can get girls to a private venue, like your house, and you start to
pour a little champagne or something, girls will get very horny and very
frisky. And when girls are in a sexual state, both men and women turn them
on - even if they are not interested in other girls. Give them the place
and the excuse (champagne) and you never know what women will do.
Also, every girl I have ever been with, I ask them if they are interested
in women. In fact, I ask that question to a lot of women I just met 5
minutes ago, as well.
And according to my not-so-scientific study, I will go out on a limb here
and say that I believe 75% of women are bisexual and 95% of women are
bi-curious. When I say curious, I mean they wonder what it would be like to
be with another woman and would likely try it out if given the chance. But
they are shy and would never actively seek it out. And after they try it,
they might not care if they ever do it again or not.
This is not the same for guys. Guys either like men or don't like men. Not
too many guys are just curious to try out being with another guy just for
the hell of it. Just to see what it's like.
And don't believe women if they initially say they are not curious about
other women. I guarantee you that almost every woman has fantasized about
another woman at one time or another.
Start asking women this question in your travels and I think you will find
that they either say they have already experimented or are very curious or
are mildly curious.
Along the same lines, I have a very interesting DVD at home called
"American Pimps". It is a documentary of exactly that - real life pimps.
How they got in the business, why a hooker needs a pimp, what percent does
the pimp get of the hooker's proceeds (100%), etc.
These guys are the ultimate players. Well, maybe player is the wrong word.
They are controllers. It's amazing that a girl would give all her money to
some guy. Why not just do the same thing and keep the money herself? No one
knows why - not even the pimps themselves. Some pimps beat the shit out of
their women - but a lot do not. Some pimps keep their women in a
drug-induced fog - but a lot do not. So why do these women stay?
They stay with the pimp because they love him and believe he loves them
back. And they are willing to turn tricks and give their pimp 100% of the
money they make for that reason alone. Amazing but true. has the DVD, if you are interested.
Anyway, the reason I brought this up is because of something one of the
pimps said to the interviewer:
"Every woman on earth has at some time or other in her life fantasized
about what it would be like to be a prostitute. To fuck someone for money
with no emotions. Yeah, even your mama..."


Cliff's Comment:  And, as another special treat, my good friend Doc has
graciously provided some of his ingenious words which have served him well
and allowed him to have nine (that's 9, guys) girlfriends in tow for the
last 6-8 months without having committed to any of them.

"I'm not like most people you know - in fact, you've probably never met
anyone like me. Because my capacity to love is unlike anything you've ever
experienced. Because, I don't think that people in today's society really
know how to love one another. Alot of people think they know how to love,
but they don't really. Love is not wanting anything FROM another person,
it's wanting something FOR another person. When I love someone, that's how
I love them.  I only want what's truly best FOR them - even if it's not
what I want. I am complete and fulfilled on my own, so I don't need
anything FROM them. Alot of different things masquerade as love:
Alot of people think that love is trying to possess someone, to keep
someone all to themselves and deprive them of experiencing things without
them because they think they should be all that the other person needs. I
am not that conceited, I know that I cannot be everything that someone
needs and I would never deprive them of an experience that would help them
grow, enrich them in some way, or fulfill them. Anything else is not love,
it's possession. I don't want to own you.
Or they use love to negotiate - "I won't give you what you want till you
give me what I want". And often, the intimacy that men and women need are
different. Women are looking for emotional intimacy whereas men are looking
for physical intimacy. So a woman will say "I won't be physically intimate
with you until you are emotionally intimate with me." And men will say "How
can I open myself to you and be emotionally intimate if we don't even trust
each other enough to me physically intimate". Well that's not love either,
but each one is using love as a negotiating tool - as leverage.
Sometimes love gets confused for power, people withhold their love from
each other to control or manipulate the other person - that's not love
either, that domination.
Some people think that love is about losing yourself in another person -
needing the other person to complete you or to feel fulfilled, and they're
afraid to let that other person go. That's not love, that's codependence.
Other people are afraid that if the other person experiences things with
someone else, then that someone else might be better than they are, or else
their lover will fall in love with someone else because they weren't enough
to keep them around. Well, that's not love, that's insecurity, and it has
no place in love.
In fact, love is not possession, it's not domination, it's not
codependence, and it has no place for insecurity. When I love someone, it's
no small thing. Love doesn't come in 31 different flavours like Baskin
Robins - there is only one true flavour and that is unconditional love. The
quality of love that I offer is only the highest quality unconditional love
- that means I don't want to possess you or control you but rather want you
to experience the most enriching life you can and help you discover and
fulfill your complete potential, even if its not what I want in the moment.
I don't want or need anything FROM you because I am fulfilled on my own. I
only want the best FOR you. And that is also how I demand to be loved
because I won't settle for anything else."


> Ginko: Problems include how to convert all of the above into serious
physical action at a party.

Ross: The real problem is, how do you know you weren't just temporary
entertainment, stimulation and distraction without any REAL intent on her
part to act further on it?
>Ginko: Her boyfriend's there, her friends are there. Also, my reading of
the situation..  i.e. is she attracted to me? or is she just 'letting go'
due to the party circumstances? Also, how to keep SOME of this vibe up at
work...she's quite prim and proper at work and I don't want to allude to
Saturday in some cheesy fashion, like raising my eyebrows up and down and
saying...'well, we had fun didn't we?"  Puke.

Ross: Ah, well if you knew how to use your language to get her to fantasize
about what she'd experienced and to build up in her mind a desire to ACT on
it, you wouldn't have to ask all these questions about what, right now, is
merely an EPISODE.
> Ginko: So, I was thinking I might just casually say something like,
"Well, well, are you going to grope me here too?" Making the night seem
like her doing. Then, just forget about the whole thing.  Things I learned
were, language smanguage. For this situation getting in touch with your
inner animal was the ticket.

Ross: Oh yeah? Well, Mr. "Inner Animal" without language....where are you
NOW, smart guy?  Has it occurred to you that you could have used BOTH...the
"inner animal" to get her excited and then your language to BIND that
excitement through time and challenge her to rise for MORE?
Nope...because you've bought into the militant stupidity that says that
language is "unmanly" or "un-alpha".
No, your intelligence, properly applied with your "inner animal" is what
will work FOR you.
> Ginko: Ever see a male cat mate with a female cat?  It's violent, he
pins her down, bites her neck and fucks her. I felt some of that when I
grabbed Blondie's hair and pulled her head back and stood over her,
dominating her. I can understand how some guys can  walk into a bar,
forcefully grab a girl and walk out with her now.  They just bypass her
brain and aim straight at the animal.

Ross: Sounds like what any idiot would do to force himself on a woman and I
KNOW that is NOT your intent.  Humans aren't cats...we USE language to
structure our world, ALONG WITH OUR ANIMAL INSTINCTS, so use them both.
> Ginko:  A very specific technique for a particular kind of girl I guess.
Frankly, I totally got off on the aggression I felt towards her, obviously
she did a couple of animals.
> Cliff's Comment:  You're my new hero.  I am sure you'll be so busy with
women lusting after you soon that I'll never hear from you again...

Ross:  Hero? Hardly.  He's half-way there. Don't idolize this guy.

Cliff's Comments:  I should have made it a bit clearer - this guy is local
and I know him fairly well.  He is always doing things like this - wild
ass, off the wall things with women but doesn't know how or when to go to
the next level.  What I meant to say clearer is that "soon" we are sure
he'll get there (we are all plugging for him).


Re:  > Review of the Voodoo Machine:
This product sounds similar to something I encountered a couple of years
back when I was playing with lucid dreaming; binaural beats. The idea is
basically that a different (audible) frequency gets fed into each ear (via
headphones).  The brain would pick up on the difference between the beats,
and adjust it's own frequency to match. When I tried this, using my
computer + headphones, it helped me meditate/make myself more alert.  A
quick web search brings up this faq:  If
you're interested in this, search around for a shareware computer program
and try it out.


Joseph R.Plazo (Exceed International :
What's your take on this:

Cliff's Comments:  Very interesting.  While a little off-topic, if anyone
has anything insightful to say about this, I'd like to hear it.

Joseph R.Plazo: Re: Review of the Voodoo Machine: Ah... so that's how it
feels? It sounds a tad like the BT6-Pro unit which I purchased from  Like you, I'm a lout with "insensitivity" to
new-fangled  devices, and yet, I'm happy with the BT6. The price is high at
$191, but it does give a profound sense of relaxation. In fact, the first
few days you use it leaves after nice effects, like a sense of complacency
and well being. It's also a great way to sleep.


The limit of my SS education was & is the Basic SS Homestudy course.  I
have been using other models of SS as advised by the Guru himself ("Thanks
Ross"), the model of asking structured questions & using the personal
trance words.

Soon I will be experimenting with an HB that I am following up on.  I have
got her to the point of feeling connected to me & yes we have been doing
the screwing.  But now I am on another level in which I want to link all
her hopes & dreams & her greatest erotic fantasies to my humble self.  To
do so I have recently used the dope questions pattern on her as Ross calls
it & have gathered some valuable information in doing so regarding all that
she wants.  I'm big on writing the seductive poems which are never small
poems but almost like a short story filled with the description of the
states & the embedded commands linking the state to me & leading to the
result I have in mind.

Anyway,  I have recently scripted some poems that talk about her greatest
fantasies, hopes, dreams, emotional & erotic needs in which I have injected
her personal trance words & included in each of these poetic stories the
embedded commands that link these feeling states to sound of my voice.  I
like to use these patterns on the phone with these women because they have
no choice but to listen to what you have to say & are more open to the
suggestions without interrupting you. Soon I will carry out this experiment
& will tell of my results in doing so.

I realize that my experiences may seem in the stone age for some of the
other SS brothers but I am catching up.  All I can say is that I want to
evolve my skills & want to point out something here; I have gone far with
the basic SS Technology using variations of the traditional language
patterns & such.  There is a woman still after me to this day as a result
of my using the Basic Speed Seduction» tools.  Of course, in that case I did
other things with that woman as well, such as I used some of the "Hyper
Emperia" methods to take her beyond the boundaries of sexual satisfaction
that she had ever experienced in her life.  Of which to this day her
husband mopes around because she won't fuck him & only wants what I gave
her even though I dumped her she says "Sex is nothing without me in her

I am trying to figure out to use Hyper Emperical inductions without having
to tell the women about Hyper Emperia to guide them into it.  Any thoughts
on this?  The  best I have thought of so far is to create language patterns
the lead the woman to "being open to possibility of every sensation, every
experience being SO NEW like never before that they just surrender
completely to me touching their secret places to point where they will
experience overwhelming pleasures like never before".  Any suggestions on this?

Also I saw in the more recent Speed Seduction» Catalog that the "Build A
Better Girlfriend  Video Series (From Ice Queen to Screaming Porn
Princess)" by Major Mark is no longer advertised.  Is this video series
still available?   I wonder?  As I understand it, this video series will
give me all the understandings I need to truly take a woman to the greatest
heights of sexual ecstasy she could ever hope for.  So maybe I'm vain? So
what? I just want to be the best thing that came flooding into the life of
any woman that is lucky enough to connect with me on a deep level.  I want
to be the unchallenged erotic authority of any woman that I choose to spend
any length of time with, I want to smash the competition & vaporize any
memories they have had from past erotic experiences, by being the best
they've ever had.

Anyway if that Build a Better Girlfriend Video series is still available
please tell me where I can find it.  I want to advance my skills &
abilities so that they fit my unique life style as I have been doing with
SS learnings all along.

I will always hold Ross Jeffries in the highest praise: were it not for his
course I'd still be in a barren waste land of rejection & insecurities
never knowing how to give women what they truly want deep inside.

Cliff's Comment:  I don't think Ross would approve of you making yourself
out to be the greatest thing a woman ever experienced and then preventing
her from going on with her life and enjoying her next experiences after you
have ended your relationship with her.  I don't think you would appreciate
anyone doing that to you and it seems to me that you are taking this in the
wrong direction.  I have no problem with you wanting to give someone the
heights when they are with you, but don't negatively impact their lives
afterwards.  Major Mark's products can be found on his website at


Dr. Dennis W. Neder (Remington Publications
Have you ever wished you had a friend or older brother that could look over
your shoulder and guide you in the most successful techniques to actually
find and meet women, get their phone numbers and set-up dates?
My brother, you've just found your answer!
We just started offering "Hunting Sessions"! This is a great opportunity to
meet alone, or in small groups with Dr. Dennis W. Neder, and learn the
secrets of the expert players! You'll spend an afternoon studying both how
and why these players score regularly and consistently, regardless of their
looks or bank accounts!
Here's just a few things you'll learn:
* Which women are approachable and which aren't?
* How should you be dressed (yes - there IS a list of things women look for!)
* How to be absolutely sure she's open to your advance.
* Why pick-up lines don't work, and what to use INSTEAD of them.
* Don't want to call her, just want to sleep with her? We'll show you who,
and HOW to get her in bed!
* Just where to go to meet beautiful, desirable, available women.
* The many, varied approach methods:
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     ...and 15 more!
* What is the "pick-up process" and how to apply it to get numbers every time.
* How to get women to shove their numbers into your hands without even asking!
* How to handle rude or uninterested women and turn them around.
* How and when to approach women in packs.
* Why you should never send a drink over to her.
... and much, much more!

These are INTENSIVE sessions! Thus, don't plan to be out late the night
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Just imagine - the chance to finally enjoy the success with women that
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Gregory Rasputin (Commenting on Ginko):
I'm impressed with the kiss in front of the bf deal, but consider this. You
said she got even flirtier with you when her bf was there, maybe she was
just trying to make him jealous and using you to do it? You said yourself
he's a bit of a player, so she might just be playing with him. You also
said everyone was drinking. That fact alone makes it so that you can never
go talk about that night again. The reason the bf started to make out with
her in public is to say to you and all the guy hitting on her "She's mine,
see, I'm making out with her" which only shows that her strategy of making
him jealous using you worked. But I could be wrong. In either situation the
girl is a whore. And the best way to deal with a whore is to be her pimp.
So don't ever ask her anything, you know everything EVERYTHING, and that's
how she should feel.


Mark B.:
As I grow and learn I am becoming more relaxed and confident about the
process. I have evolved into the non "pickup" pickup where I simply
initiate a non sexual conversation with a woman and then mismatch and
challenge what she says. This way she can never feel that she has me in any
way and it keeps her intrigued. The most powerful pick up line I have used
has been "hi there" followed by "What are you doing?"  Then I just leave
them and they open up and talk. This weekend while at Easy & the 5th, a
nightclub in Toronto I said "hi there" to three women and had extended
conversations with all three of them but none of them really sparked my
interest enough to suggest an exchange of numbers. One woman though within
60 seconds of our conversation told me that she is unhappy with her husband
and wants out. 60 seconds!!!!!!!!!!! AMAZING. Now I do look at a woman and
make a good connection with her my first priority rather than getting her
number or fucking her. I know that a good connection will naturally lead to
both of us wanting to see each other and then great fucking afterwards. And
if we do not connect then I let her go as any attempts at fucking her or
seeing her would result in beating a dead horse.

To me this has a made a huge difference as it takes away the pressure to
get a number. I can focus on the process rather than the outcome which
makes the entire exchange a lot more pleasant and fun and successful. In
the meantime, I learn more and more about my interactions with women and
how they think. I learned that you can never really let a woman know that
she has you in the sense of expressing too much desire for her by telling
her. That seems to take you overboard and outside the boundary of normally
acceptable social behaviour. Recently while getting to know a woman I never
complimented her, never told her I wanted her or any other expression of
desire. My interest in her I indicated by talking to her and being with
that kept her intrigued and interested to the point where she began talking
marriage and me moving in with her. I realized that she was getting in too
deep and found an excuse to leave the situation as she only represented an
outlet for my physical interest rather than anything long term.

On another note with respect to diet, I have been doing research into the
relationship between diet and moods and discovered that salt or sodium
laden foods contribute to anxiety, nervousness and depression. I cut out my
high salt cans of tuna and found myself much more focused, mentally relaxed
and more aggressive with women and with people in general which has so far
served me well. I am better able to connect and act with more confidence.


I just quit my job as a bartender at a strip club.  I never knew that I
would ever say this, but I found it extremely boring working in a strip
club.  There were nine of us working as bartenders, seven girls, the
owner's son and I.

Seeing many of the well know porn stars up close in person, I thought some
of them actually looked ridiculous.  I mean, maybe it's just me, but I find
the girls who had basketball sized breast implants looked rather
stupid.  It just never looked sexy to me (and, no, I am not gay.)


SeductionLinks is your portal to».  In addition to
sites on the net, contains event, newsgroup,
newsletter, and lair listings.  It also features articles, product reviews,
a message board, reading list, and the one and only SeductionLinks
newsletter.  Also featured are related topics such as hypnosis, NLP,
persuasion, sexual techniques, entertainment and others.  To contribute to
the site or have your site/product/event listed and reviewed please contact
get***e@at***.com[ ? ]

Cliff's Comments:
There are a lot of sites I hadn't seen before on this site, including:
The Pimp Network
Girlfriend stealer

Commercial sites:

So if you are reading this and have the time to check some of it out, how
about sharing some reviews and/or comments with the rest of us?


I am meeting this guy who gives instruction on meeting people. I talked to
him on the phone, and he seems to REALLY GET IT. DO you know David Wygant?
His website is He seems to be able to take people
out and teach them how to become naturals.  He meets with very rich people
also for three days and molds them into PUAs.

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
cli***f@cl***.com[ ? ] and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at

By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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