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"Some bitches play this game like baseball 11/27/03"

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Some bitches play this game like baseball 11/27/03
1/27/03 2:25:09 AM Eastern Standard Time


Cliff's List Website

Please go to the website for a full list of the rules, disclaimers,
suggested links and referrals to other seduction sites and explanations of
what this list is all about.  Seminar, workshop & conference schedules are
on the website also, as is a glossary of terms that may be used here that
you may be unfamiliar with.


Erick Kand (
Confidence used to be a big issue for me. In some ways I've turned what was
once my biggest weakness into my biggest strength. I've been following the
PUA (mostly Ross and Major Mark) technology for at least five years, and
that has certainly helped my own self-improvement. Everything that is on
this CD is congruent with the desire to powerfully enhance your success in
life, business, relationships, and especially with women.

Cliff's Comment:  I have been playing this CD for the last few weeks and I
highly recommend it.  Firstly, probably 70% of the time I listen to it I
fall asleep (which is something I really like - tapes that relax me are hard
to find for me personally).  There has been an effect on me also that is
hard to quantify but I feel a greater clarity about some things and a sense
that I am stronger for having listened to the tape.


For some reason, the subject header didn't print out on that last email I
sent out.  For the record, it was titled "If this elevator gets stuck, we
could be trapped in here for weeks. And then..."  (When you found the line
in the email, it continues..."I would have to eat you...")


Chocolate thoughts:
In the Men's Health Guide to Women, page 246, they quote a book called
"Chocolate Sex" by Richard Barber, Nancy Whitlin & Anthoney Loew which gives
the following statistics:

Percent of Women who think about chocolate while having sex:  86
Percent of men who have ever thought about chocolate while having sex:  1
Percent of women who think about sex when eating chocolate:  98
Percent of women who think that eating chocolate is sex:  78
Maximum number of orgasms achieved by a woman during sex as documented by
Masters & Johnson:  19
Maximum number of orgasms achieved by a woman eating chocolate:  43

I don't hold any credibility to these numbers, but I do think there's
probably a much stronger connection between chocolate & pleasure/sex than we


We had the first Miami Lair meeting November 10, 2002. The meetings will be
held each Sunday at 2:00pm near the Metro Zoo. For any other people who may
be interested in attending, please contact Jerry at tru***e@em***.com[ ? ].
GR of Miami wrote:
For those of you in the Miami area...what are you waiting for!? Join the
Miami lair. I attended the first meeting and it was very well structured and
has the potential to become into something BIG. In future meetings we plan
on going out into the field, so for those of you looking for wings and
experience, this is the perfect opportunity.


Ricky Ricardo:
How I handle Clubs/clubbing:
First of all let me say, as far as "sex-close" is concern I am not as
successful has I should/could be. Meaning, while I have literally made out
with at least (no less than) five hundred (500) young ladies. I have only
bridged approximately 10% into sex. Therefore, I know that I am doing
something wrong at some stage, after all. [Although in some cases I
consciously decide not to "sex close."]
Nevertheless, the stage that I believe I am very, very good at is meeting
and speaking with attractive young ladies in a night club environment. Now I
am gradually figuring out why I have not completely "sex-closed" more of the
women I hooked-up with on a weekly basis. It is my experience/discovery that
every woman on the face of this earth can be picked up with the right
approach. It doesn't matter if she is married, engaged, have a
boyfriend/girlfriend, religious, or whatever (yes, even your mother-no that
is not meant to be an insult or a joke.)
Anyway gentlemen, most of what I shall be presenting here on clubs
(clubbing) is absolutely nothing new. Then why am I presenting it? Well,
simple Clifford asked me to share. Now guys, before I go any further let me
say this:
While I clearly stated above that I have made out with at least
(conservatively speaking) 500 women, I am by no means a master of anything.
I still consider myself an "old-newbie." (Since 1996.) In fact, I still ask
Clifford, Ross and others, what may be considered to be rookie questions.
Some of which are very pathetic.
Furthermore, let me clearly state that, I am no Ross Jeffries, Mystery or
any of those great men, whom I admire a lot. However, guess what? I have
fucked up more than Ross, Clifford, Mystery, the David's or maybe all of you
guys on this list combined. In fact, if there were a noble prize for
screwing up with women, I would have retired that trophy, long ago.
Instead, what I do, is just pick myself up, dust myself off and start all
Nevertheless, recently when I sat and evaluated my mistake(s) (after meeting
a woman.) I realized that most, if not all these mistake(s) could have been
avoided. Now, that is where the great minds on this and Ross's list help me
a great deal. Since, I believe there is a lot to be learned from all these
gentlemen and methods combined, not separate and apart. That is, Mystery
with some great openings, Ross with extreme google and languaging, David D.
being cocky, confident and funny, etc.
Anyway, 90% of my success, be it "kiss-close" or "sex-close" occurs at the
clubs on a weekly basis. [Note: I have not been to the clubs in the last
three months, because I was working 7 night a week at a strip club. So there
was no time for me to go out. Similarly, I did a grant total of zero sarging
between 1998 and the end of 2000. Owing to a tragic event in my life.]
Finally, before I break down my simple way of working the clubs, let me say
this. The greatest book I ever read, period, was "How to Get the Women you
desire into Bed." Written by some "E-diot" who known absolutely nothing
about women called Ross Jeffries (in 1996). LOL. Well that "E-diot" will
always be one of my main heroes. This book and RJ, I believe are probably
the biggest reasons why I have the size balls that I have in the clubs
(although he himself is not a clubman.)
Now without further delays--working the clubs:
A lot of this is more attitude, than actual words spoken. More about having
balls the size of grapefruits. (I have passed the stage of just having
confidence in the club.) I have done the following at 12 clubs in 3
different States-coast to coast-all ending with at least one make out
1. First I believe you should approach clubbing like a military operation.
That is, run it like a business. By which I mean, many guys choose to show
up at the club at 12:30 am when the club closes at 1 or 1:45 am bar time.
Now I know this does work for a few guys. However, the two main nightclubs,
which I attend, are generally frequented by college football players, basket
ballers, soccer players, and even a few pro athletes. Plus many other
"regular" guys like myself.
Hence, if you decide to show up late, like the way you show up late for work
or classes, you are cheating yourself. The clubs (after happy hours) open at
9 pm. Guys, try to be there no later than 10 pm. Check how many hours you
have and how many young ladies you can start a conversation with, in those
hours. 10 pm to last call at 1:30 am is only 3.5 hours. Only three and
half-hours so make your cover charge count.
2. Leave your homeboys at home or just avoid hanging with them in the club.
Unless they are extremely good at getting women. However, there are some
guys who are around a lot of women that you may still wish to avoid. How do
you know which of your "girls-pet" homeboys to avoid, nonetheless? Well,
first ask yourself this question: do these guys ever introduce you to anyone
that they are speaking with-male or female? Most of my homeboys never ever
introduce me, even if they are with a hundred people. However, I also
realized two of my boys who actually introduce me to everyone and his/her
mothers are the two most successful fellows I know.
Hanging with your homeboys, especially the posers (guys who appear to have
girls and an Alpha male» persona, but are actually AFC), only reinforces bad
habits in you.
3. Once at the club. Avoid the girls with the big purse/hand bag, like the
plague. Do they-date, fuck, have relationships, needs love too? Yes,
certainly. However, based on my observation, they are usually the designated
drivers, baby sitters (friend sitter), for the night. What's in those
purses/hand bags? Listerine, perfume, make up, tissue paper, tampons,
cigarette, camera, cellular phone, diaphragm, condoms, etc. So, while I do
make friends with those young ladies. I do so over a long period of time.
By just saying, "hi" and being friendly with them when I go by. However, I
never approach them to dance. Sometimes they will approach me. Thus, the
bigger the purse the more I avoid the girl.
4. Similarly, at parties avoid the young ladies whom you see with condoms,
pinned to their out fit. Trust me, every other guy in the room will be
giving them all the attention they need. There is no need for you to be
adding to this. The condoms mean they want to get all the guys' attention,
not that they want to bang. Let me repeat that, such display is for show and
fun only, not "I want to fuck tonight."

5. Always be having fun, no matter what. Even if you are out there on the
dance floor alone, act like you are having more fun than any one in the
room. Just be having what I call "crazy fun." Dancing and greeting people.
Even if you are like me, and tend to dance with two left feet. Hi-five
everyone (both male and female) on or around the dance floor, even if you
have never seen them before in your life. That first hi-five for the night
may not do much. However, as the night goes on people will start saying,
"hey, there he is, that's the man/guy." Girls will start coming up and
saying, "you are so cool, you are really having fun, aren't you?" Continue
saying, "hi" to everyone and his/her dog in the club and having fun. (You do
not need to stop to engage in conversation. I find that after saying hello
around the dance floor people (both male and female) tend to search me out
for conversation as the night goes on.
6. I never, ever (at least no longer, I should say) ask, "do you have a
boyfriend?" Why? Well, for one it's none of my damn business. However, more
importantly I have found that most (many) women will fuck your brains out
when she is in the mood, despite having a boyfriend.
7. Never hold up the wall. Have you ever noticed that there is very little
space at the walls? The guys who hold up the wall and still get laid are
usually the sport players (basketball, football, etc.) Women usually come to
those guys. Meanwhile, holding up the wall usually does not work for
"regular" guys like you and I. Nevertheless, if you know what you are doing
you will be far more successful than Mr. NBA will. Get yourself in the
middle of the dance floor or somewhere speaking with girls or just simply go
home. Just get your hands stamped, and take a walk outside the club, but
whatever you do avoid the dreaded wall like the plague.
8. I usually go on the dance floor as soon as I enter the club(s), even if
it's empty. Why? Well, ironically because I am not the best dancer in the
world. Thus, while many guys need a few beers before hitting the dance
floor, I just go out there and start moving. Yes, I view it as warming up.
That is, for the first five minutes I am really, really, self-conscious and
can't really dance. Yet, after fifteen minutes out there I start feeling a
lot more relaxed about dancing. After that time I no longer worry if I am
dancing good or not. I am still shocked week, after week, at the number of
young ladies who approach me on the empty dance floor. (Note: The dance
floor usually gets packed at around 11:30 pm. By that time I am already
dancing with a group of three or more girls.)
9. Now, I do believe eye contact and all that is important. However, I
never, ever just wait for it in the club. Instead, I simply walk up to a
girl or groups of girls (group of one to ten or more.) Then with the biggest
smile on my face, I hug them/her and say, "hi."
Let's me explain this smile for a minute. I always pretend that my friend
just told me the most amazing joke. Then I have that smile/laugh. The type
that you have when you are just walking away after you heard a good joke.
Then I say as I hug them, "man that was so funny," as I say, "hello." They
usually ask what's funny? Then I point to something in the environment (the
If I approach her from the front, after the above, I say, "let's dance."
Never, ever, "do you want to dance?" On the other hand, if I approach her
from behind after the above "funny smile," she/they will look at me and I
just start dancing while smiling.
Similarly, if she is just standing around close to the dance floor, but not
on the dance floor, after the above greeting I take her by the hand and say,
"[her name], let's have that dance now." Note, here I am speaking about
girls I have never met before.
Note carefully: I always hug or put my arms around her/them in one form or
another, when I approach. That is, whether I approach from behind, the side
or front, I place my arms on them while smiling and saying, "that was so
cool/funny," etc.
10. Know your audiences, the approach that works on Jen, may or may not work
on April or Allison.
11. For you gentlemen attending college. I am so surprised at how many of
you do not say, "hello," to your female counter parts outside the clubs.
Guys, those are the same young ladies that go to these clubs. Thus, by just
casually saying "hi" here and there, you will be "in" when you see them in
the club. However, not because you said, "hi" to her outside the club and
she acknowledges you inside the club it does not mean you should hog her
time. Do not surgically attach yourself to her. Greet her, move away, and
return later. She will determine if she wants you to stick around like an
12. Now this is a very big one, guys. If you take nothing else, this is the
biggest secret for you. If a girl refuses your approach early in the night,
it does not mean go away and never return. If I tell you guys how many girls
I hook up with who had earlier refused my initial approach, man.
Never ask why she does not want to dance? She has every right to refuse.
Which, most of the times has nothing in the world to do with you. It's not
your appearance or anything. So just go away. However, with that same big
smile, just say, "[*her name], I will speak with you later on" and keep
smiling on leave. (*I am assuming you had asked her name.) Now keep dancing
and have "mad-crazy fun." Dance and make out with other young ladies. Then
later on say, "hi" to the young lady/ladies who refuse before. Depending on
how they had said, "no" the first time will gauge the way you approach the
second time around. However, always, always give every woman at least a
second chance to get to know you. Always go back and say, "hello" a few more
times or once that night and another time if you see them/her the week
I have found that not only her refusal the first time has nothing to do with
you, but weeks after, when you see her and say, "hello" she/them usually
never remembers turning you down before. For instance, this past weekend I
received a $50 tip (my highest ever) from this cute blond who I saw at a
nightclub about eight months ago. She would not give me the time of day
then. I reminded her, but she never remembered me, only that she goes to
that nightclub a lot. She told me that she was very sorry and maybe it was
one of those times that she was drunk. She then left me with the highest
single tip I have received in three years of bartending.
Guys, almost 100% of the young ladies who refused my initial approach,
generally warm up to me as the night go on. That is, with out me even
bothering them. I just keep warm as I see them in the club throughout the
night. Most of all I am having "mad-crazy fun" and enjoying other women
13. Don't be afraid to be seen making out. Women don't mind, in fact, they
seem to love seeing you making out with other women in the club. I make out
with no less than three girls in the same club each night. They all see me
making out with other young ladies. Yet, a very strange thing happens every
time. It gets easier to pick up the next girl and the next group in the club
when you are already making out with other women. It seems like women only
want what other women have. I have had women say "you were the guy over
there making out with my friend Kim." Yet, within 5 minutes we are at it. In
fact, I will be making out with one young lady and just reach out and
pull/grab the closest girl to us. Then before you know it I am making out
with her. Guys, this actually works every time.
14. As for sex, sometimes just asking works. That has happen so many times
it is so funny. For instance, one day I was speaking with some of the guys.
They were asking me why I never speak with two female friends of theirs.
These two young ladies happen to be fat, but guys honestly that had
absolutely nothing to do with it. In fact, I do consider myself to be an
equal opportunity sleaze-bag. Now these guys went on to say that they have
never seen me with a fat girl. Well as far as I know I usually approach two
girls dancing (sometimes one friend fat and the other slim). After a few
minutes of dancing with both of them. One of them always says, "I need to
speak with my friend." They usually leave and I just start dancing with some
other girl right away-even if I have to share with some other guy.
Then it's usually the slim friend, who comes and grabs me from behind,
without her friend.
So, I said to these guys. Just grab me the fattest girl in the club and I
will hook up with her. Well they did not grab the fattest young lady, just
the closest fat girl. I started dancing with her, then I tried to leave she
refused to let me go. So I thought I could gross her out. Thus, I said,
"tell you what let me take you home and go down on you all night long."
Guys I actually said that. Her response shocked the hell out of me that
first time. She was like, "okay, where is your car?" This has happen many
times since.
However, please note that the other 80% of the time I never actually ask.
Nonetheless, I was only turned down once in approximately 10 times that I
have asked so far. Yet, as I said getting laid was the opposite of what I
was attempting to achieve the first time I just asked for it. (By the way
although I have asked successfully 9 times to date, I still don't like that
15. Now how do I know that she wants to make out? Do I ask her? NO! I have
noticed that when a girl wants you to kiss her. She will start to give you
this incredible eye scan and they almost always part their lips. They have
that luscious look to their lips. That is, their lips are not pursed
together instead it's parted and she is licking them. When I just started
out girls use to ask, "are you just shy, why don't you kiss me?" Now I just
watch for the above signs. Then I simply brush back her hair (as she smiles)
and hold her face in my left hand and plant one on her. Then I pull back
slightly. Has this ever failed? Possibly, but I really cannot remember when.
16. Don't ever get drunk and finally, never, ever go home with a drunken
Well gentlemen, that is all, if there is any questions please feel free to


Tyler Durden (reposted from Mystery's Lounge with permission of the author):
I sarged my first princess yesterday..
Walk up on her in the line at the coffee shop at school, and start
pretending I'm in her class..
ME: hey I was in that class with you before I dropped it.. you know..
HER: umm? Mediavel History?
ME: Yeah!  So you remember me right?
HER: ummm sorry..
ME: what the fuck is this?!  you don't remember me?!  OMG I'm such a loser!
HER: I'm sorry, I'm sorry!
ME: You'd better be sorry (start eating her sandwich cause it looked pretty
good and I had a different kind of sandwich)
HER: hey!
ME: shut the fuck up.. I'm eating your sandwich
HER: that class is soooo boring.. you're so lucky you dropped it..
ME: yeah.. but I kinda liked the whole supernatural element of it..
HER: yeah me too..
ME:  yeah.. but the whole supernatural element.. I kinda think that's cool..
it's like, hey wait a sec!  do you think spells work?!
HER: ummm.. I dunno..
ME: ok well get this.. actually wait a sec, my sandwich is almost ready..
good I won't have to keep eating yours.. hey wait a sec, go find a seat I'll
be right over..
HER: ummmmm... ok
ME: actually wait a sec.. here, come sit here (picked the couch hahahhaa)

---> Now I sit down beside these other 2 fine HBs.. and I even steal the
table that they're using to study with, to eat my sandwich on (the setup is
like 2 couches facing in towards a table)... meanwhile all these other HBs
that I've either sarged in the past or know me through friends have walked
by and waved and shit so I'm social proofed..

ME: your sandwich is better.. here, eat mine.. wait first let me eat more of
mine.. (eat more of mine, and give her the scraps)
HER: so what courses do you take..
ME: (realizing she's going into BORING convo.. switching gears)  I'm in
cotton blending.. here, this shirt, it's a nice cotton blend (feeling up her
HER: hahaha..

Then I go into more routines and shit, while the other 2 chicks studying
next to us are looking on.. then she lets it slip that she has a BF, and
sort of trails off as she says it.. it's from a story, where she's like "me
and my boyfriend.. ummm yeah we did that" so you can TELL she let it slip by
accident.. so now I'm all pissed, cause she's making this more difficult
than it has to be..
I know she's into me, cause I told this story about how I pissed off this
"Friends of Paul Martin" chick by stealing her pen when I was at this
university club's night thing.  And then I was chatting up some nice girl I
met, and this girl came and attacked me and freaked out, but I just told the
chick I was meeting that I had no idea who she was, so that she looked like
she's crazy..
HER: so what happened?
ME: it was all good.. the crazy chick looked like an idiot, and took off..
meanwhile me and that new chick I met went for ice cream
HER: oh.. (looking all disappointed).. are you still with her..
ME: it wasn't that kind of thing (ambiguous... we could have just fucked, or
have been LJBF's.. who knows??? I change the subject)
So I transition into this story WHICH WAS ACTUALLY TRUE:
ME: The weirdest thing happened today.. I was at the jeans store.. and this
chick walks in with this big black guy.. and I can tell that he's fucking
her and all that.. but it's weird, cause she's looking at me and giving me
EC non-stop.. now they know the girl working at the store, and I'm curious
what's up with this girl checking me out.. so after they leave, I walk up on
the store girl and say "oh yeah, I heard that guy say he's in clubs'
promotion.. is it one of the clubs on Princess St.?" and we chat.. then I
ask how the girl and the guy know each other.. and the store girl says
"they're --friends--" with a weird tone.. so I say "friends?" and she says..
"well you know.. friends with benefits.." I say "oh yeah..?" she says "well
you know.. they fuck".... so I start laughing, and I'm all haha that's
interesting.. so she doesn't want anything from him.. and the store girl
says "well she has a BF who gives her his credit card and takes care of
her... this guy is more for fun"..

HER: really.. haha.. that's funny.. so I guess she wanted you too.
ME: apparently the guy's only in town once in a while, so I dunno if she's
just looking for more or something.. but you know, I thought it was funny..
but then I realized that I saw on the Discovery Channel that it's actually
NATURAL for women to have two guys.. a provider, and a more exciting type
guy.. (go into some natural woman type patterns and all that)
HER: yeah. for GOOD SEX!
ME: yeah.. haha...
HER: yeah, alot of girls I know do that.. but for me, I think that if I met
a new guy, I'd want to dump my boyfriend and just have that new guy as my
new boyfriend.. cause I really don't like to cheat.. but if that guy were to
be patient, I could meet him and get to know him, and then I could decide if
I could dump my boyfriend back home (he's a long distance boyfriend).
ME: ummmm.. uh, ok.. hey, I got film class right now..
HER: umm ok.. well you know, now that we don't have class anymore, we won't
see each other unless we find a way to get in touch...
ME: ummm.. don't worry, I'm around here all the time.. we'll see each other
for sure!  see ya!

END  (that sarge lasted about 45 minutes)

This chick thinks I'm going to be her new boyfriend?! hahahahhahahhaa..

So now these 2 fine chicks whose table I stole are looking at me..  they had
listened to the whole sarge.
ME: that was fucking horrible!
THEM: what?  was it a forced conversation?
ME: no.. she was just so BO-RING..
THEM: where did you meet her?
ME: in the lineup back there..
THEM: hahaha.. holy shit!  you got her to have dinner with you THAT FAST?
ME: yeah so what?  I'm single.. fuck off, or you two are next!
THEM: hahaha..
ME: I'm just sick of it you know.. girls have NOTHING to say.. they think
that just cause they look fine that that's enough.. it's NOT enough!  it's
just not enough!  You know beauty is common.. but what's rare is a great
personality blah blah blah..
THEM: hahahah...
ME: look!  listen to me.. listen carefully... make our lives easier!  wear
some piece of unique jewelry for us to comment on or something.. you know I
had to tell that chick that I had a class with her!?  wtf is that?!
THEM: hahaha. you weren't really in the same class as her?
ME: do you think I'd take Medieval history?
THEM: hahhaha..
ME: and LISTEN... you NEED to have at least THREE good stories for us to
listen to, when we have a lull in the conversation.. I bet you two girls are
just like that girl.. right now, if you had to, what would you tell me
that's interesting..
THEM: ummmmm..
ME: that's right.. NOTHING.. you're BORING
THEM: hahaha..
ME: the only way I could date you guys is if you BOTH came out with me..
THEM: hahah..
ME: don't laugh.. I'm serious... that way, while one of you is stalling out,
the other can think of something..
THEM: hahaha

(then I go sit in between them on their couch)
ME: ok, now let's practise.. first you kiss me (point to my cheek, she
kisses it).. now you kiss me (point to my cheek, the other chick kisses
it)... ok, you guys enjoying this..
THEM: hahaha. sure
ME: ok, here... lemme show you something
(ok now I've been reading too many Badboy posts, where he keeps talking
about the "badboy in me" coming out.. and it was starting to infect my
mentality.. and I kept thinking "I am a Badboy" in a Croatian accent to
myself for some reason..  When I'm sarging now, I just keep thinking
" and shit like that..)
ME: here, I'll show you something crazy.. are you up for it..
HER: umm... what?
ME: yes or no?!
HER: ok yes
ME: ok, I can show you something fucking CRAZY.. I'll show you how to feel
EXACTLY like you're getting a real kiss, WITHOUT actually using my lips or
my tongue.. it's fucking amazing.. this guy did it on me, and I couldn't
even tell (saying a guy did it on me, to DISARM their suspicions, since I
obviously wouldn't let a guy actually kiss me)
HER: how do you do it?
ME: If I tell you, it RUINS the psychological effect.. here, close your
HER: ok
ME: (whispering to her friend..) "OK, here's your chance.. kiss her now!"
HER: I can't do that!
ME: do it NOW!
HER: hahahhaha... no no no no no no..
HER: hahaha no no no no no no no hahahah noooooo...
ME: (still whispering) fine, you can kiss me then  (I give her a fast kiss,
no tongue)
HER: hahaha.
ME: be quiet.. fine this is YOUR FAULT!
(I lean over and kiss her friend)
HER (girl I kissed): OMG! hey! hahaha.. HEY!
ME: your friend MADE ME!
Other chick: this guy is CRAZY!
ME: hahahaha.. hey check this out!  I can show you all these crazy things
(used the CUBE... hahahahhaha I love that shit, it's CHICK BAIT!  They can't
RESIST it once you suggest it!  They just HAVE to know what you'll tell them
about themselves... it's like it says in "The Sexual Key", women are drawn
to the mystically authoritative, and that which can give them insights about
unknown depths and potentials... I realized this from EDDY, who made a chick
invite him to her house and cook him lasagna, just cause she wanted to know
what insights he could give her SO BAD (plus he nailed her when he was
there).. same thing with Commander Zap, who's GF is ADDICTED on PU
gimmicks.. now I realize that girls MUST HAVE THEM and that they are
BAIT hahahhaa!!)
ME: ok enough, I have class.  Give me your phone #s and we're all going
out.. I'll finish the CUBE when we hookup..
THEM: hahaha (they look at each other deciding)
ME: give it to me NOW, I have to go
They give me their numbers and names (which I imediately call their house to
see if the #s are legit once I'm around the corner and they are)
ME: cya

This will probably be FLAKE because they KNOW from seeing me in action with
the other chick that I'll fuck both of them, and once they're out of their
state they'll probably freak out that they let me do that.. but hey, I had

Doing groups is the shit.. I never could do them before, but after the
Mystery Method» workshop, I'm cool with it.. of course the above sarge didn't
exactly follow Mys' instructions, but fuck it, it was fun.

The reason I didn't try to seal the deal with the 2 chicks right there, is
cause I'd missed my last TWO night film classes in a row, just to sarge
chicks at dinner time, and I SWORE that I wouldn't skip another one just to
get laid, for the rest of the year.. I'm skeptical these chicks would have
lezzed out for me anyway, but maybe that's a LSE issue on my part.

Normally I just go for it, and I probably could have scooped at least one of
them using Mys' choose gino gambit tactic.


> Zan (More reposts from Mystery's Lounge): Haha, I dressed as Zorro for a
Halloween party. It was a lot of fun. Here's a tip, guys. You want to get
women? Dress as Zorro! lol - I was surrounded all night. I kissed 9 girls
that night. And even though I had two of my girlfriends at the party, I
still took a new girl I just met home with me (a witch - no pic). When you
are Zorro, you can get away with anything.

Colin: When you are "God's gift to women," you also get away with all the
smoking hot girls. I had this great idea a few months ago to wrap myself up
in wrapping paper, bows and ribbon, slap a large tag on me that says "From:
God, To: Woman" and go out for Halloween as God's gift to women.  I couldn't
believe the reaction I got. I got hi-5's from all the guys and all the woman
were all over me, I've never been so hit on in my life. As soon as I got
there I went to the dance floor and these two hot babes (definite 10's) were
making a manwich out of me! I don't know what I can do next year to top


Brujo Negro:
In regards to the experiment I did on Halloween, the HB is starting to
respond differently saying that she loves to listen to my voice, that it
makes her feel good to listen to it. This is all new behavior mind you, she
was never into my voice in this way prior to this experiment, so I am taking
this as positive feed back from my experiment.
I am going to experiment using sub-modalities more often in my SS ventures.
I remember when I first started learning & practicing the materials in the
basic SS Homestudy course that there was one gal that I used the
sub-modalities shift on. I started from a different place with her though
because she was a friend I started working the friends into lovers pattern
that used quotes & I messed up because I did not take hold of her hands to
capture the state I built in her. I would have had a powerfully stacked
anchor because when I ended the part of that pattern that talks about
imagining the feeling before you have an orgasm & can you feel that right
now. I swear the girl creamed in her seat.  She just moaned & her eyes had
this wide expression then she started giggling & talking about how exciting
that was.
After which I elicited her sub-modalities for falling in love, then anchored
a powerful pleasure state in her body & went on to place a picture of me in
that place where she pictured falling in love. I figured at the time that
since I did not anchor that earlier pattern I was going to run another
sexual arousal pattern on her by describing another person's experience &
anchor that state on top of the already anchored pleasure state, but as I
was about to do that some homeless guy interrupted me by asking if we had
any smokes he could bum off us which we had none. And he sat there talking
to us "we were in a park in the evening" so this guy was there bugging us &
finally I got him to leave & was about to start into the pattern & she had
said she needed to go home.
So that was the end of that experiment though I will say after that the girl
called me quite frequently & was always eager to see me. BUT I was still new
to the skills so I did not close the deal like I should have & well I moved
on to other experiments. After that experiment I left the Sub-Modalities
technique & got stuck on the pattern recitations using them on BBS on the
phone, in person & using hypnotic poetry.
It wasn't until recent times that I started listening & using the personal
trance words as part of the pattern recitations.  A person can become so
focused on one aspect or rather one set of tools with which to operate that
we can forget that there exist other compatible & effective tools to be
utilized for one's special needs. Thus I will re-experience the power of
Sub-modalities in my SS practice sessions & also utilize demonstrative
anchoring techniques as part of my magic bag of goodies.
Truly I feel that I'm starting where I orginally left off from my original
SS skills & practice.  I got too wrapped up in one of the women I impacted
with the patterns that it threw me off the path of SS development.  Now I am
awakening once again. I guess that's in part due to the fact that I was
still in AFC recovery & thus forgot that I had endless choices of babes to
choose from. Never too late to get back on the path & have some fun.


Gregory Rasputin:
> Ross: You were AFC and you STILL attracted and made out with an
astonishingly beautiful young woman. So....YOU DID IT ON YOUR LOOKS.

Gregory Rasputin: Or maybe he was just a cool's not either SS or

Cliff's Comment:  I guess the question is, would this attitude have been
successful for someone without Zan's looks.  I believe it would.  I think
it's great to get ideas from guys like Zan whose looks contributed to
allowing him to develop such a strong attitude.


>Red Axe wrote: I asked her if she has ever felt a connection to someone
despite some inhibition she didn't want to cross. She said not really. I
then asked her what it would be like if she had, and she said "Oh, it would
be great." I should have anchored it, but I didn't think of it.

Thomas: And what makes you think you didn't anchor it again?
> Red Axe: I found maintaining the eye contact throughout the silences is
very powerful.

Thomas:  Hmmmm...doesn't sound at all like a vampire anchor.....
> Red Axe: I can function a lot more on auto pilot now without having to
bring out any real scripted techniques most of the time.

Thomas:  Except anchors?


Nick V.:
I would like to put a posting on your list for any brothers who would be
interested in forming a SS lair for people in Melbourne/Australia. The
purpose is the same concept as the Lair which you run in Canada, that is a
support group of SS brothers to share ideas and assist brothers who are
getting stuck.  We will meet most likely once a month. Therefore for those
brothers who would be interested in such a concept they can email me on
nvt***1@ho***.com[ ? ].


This is the webpage that I was talking about. I stumbled across it a few
months ago, and bookmarked it for submission to the list. Here's the opening
few paragraphs:
' "You hear it all the time: "He was such a NICE Guy, and she's such a
Heartless Bitch for dumping him."
I get letters from self-professed Nice Guys, complaining that women must
WANT to be treated like shit, because THEY, the "Nice Guy" have failed
repeatedly in relationships. This is akin to the false logic that "Whales
are mammals. Whales live in the sea. Therefore, all mammals live in the
sea." If you have one bad relationship after another, the only common
denominator is YOU. Think about it.'
The rest of the explanation for what is generally AFC behaviour- and why
it'll almost never work- can be found at:
I'm sure many on the list can identify with the guys described there. At
least I could in my past.
And while the site in general ( is
interesting, [read the front page manifesto], there are some even more
relevant snippets here and there. Most of the links on this page: lead to good


aa aa:
Before I go into some field-reports, I'd like to introduce the concept of
Loss-Sensitivity. I saw this on PBS once during a stock-investment program.
The concept is that we are more sensitive to our losses than we are to our
gains. In the case of the PBS program, they were talking about gains and
losses in the stock-market, but this can be applied to our PU. For example,
although I continue to gain confidence through my successes, I am more
adversely affected by a failed attempt. In other words, it is easy for me to
overlook all the progress and success I have made when I run into a failed
PU attempt (I might start to doubt myself again, I might start to say I'm
not cut out for this anymore, whatever). This concept is useful because, for
me, it is helpful to note how I am affected by my failed attempts sometimes
so that I can better manage my ability to move on from them. The key is that
I become more aware of how I react to a failed-attempt and try to lessen the
impact it can potentially have on me by seeing it relative to all my other
Something that I need to work on now is that ability to "be relentless",
that ability to go from one PU to another within a matter of minutes. I have
not been able to do that yet. I want to do several PUs within any given
day... or for that matter, within hours. I know this is a mental reframing
and I simply need to get it into my thinking to "be relentless, be
And now on to some field-reports. Some background info: We got out at the
same stop during my train commute to work in the morning. I noticed an
unusal ring on her wedding-ring finger. The ring is an odd shape, it had no
diamond, unlike a typical wedding ring.
My thoughts are in parenthesis ().
Me: Excuse me.
Her: hmmm?
Me: I was wondering if that was a wedding ring on your finger because if it
isn't, I'd like to ask you out... but if it is, then I think that's the most
unusual ring I've ever seen.
Her: (she laughs) My father gave it to me.
Me: Then if I were to ask you if there was someone in your life right now,
what would you say?
Her: There is. I'm flattered though. (she seems very receptive and I'm
thinking a good sign)
Me: I work around here, would you still like to have lunch sometime, purely
on a platonic level? (I could have gone into a BF-Destroyer but I opted not
to bother as I was already ready to next her because I don't like to deal
with boyfriends unless I feel she is really worth the trouble.)
Her: Sure. This week's a little busy but perhaps next week. (I wasn't
expecting her to agree.)
Me: Do you have a business card? (I use this for much the same reason as
Sisonpyh uses "do you have email." It is not as awkward as "what's your
number", and I still get a number I can reach her at.)
Her: I don't. Do you? (she asks me for my card, I'm thinking this is a
Me: I do. And If I were to give you my card would you call me? (I had no
intention of giving her my card if she wasn't certain.)
Her: yes.
Me: ok. (I hand her my card. I continue to talk to her because I wanted to
build more rapport as I felt she was being very receptive.) And what do you
Her: I'm in advertising.
Me: So am I. What part of advertising?
Her: (something I don't remember)
Me: Did you grow up around here?
Her: No. Vermont.
Me: I'm going to get a donut right now, do you want to join me.
Her: I'm can't. I'm late right now. blah, blah, blah.
Me: Then lunch.
Her: ok
Don't know if she'll call, but I'm not holding my breath. It'll simply be a
pleasant surprise if she does. I contribute this purely for comments as I
continue to make progress from my former AFC ways.
This one is for the younger PUs. Some background info: she turned out to be
17 (much younger than I thought and obviously too young to mess around with
as there are laws that puts you away for this), but I contribute this as
material for the younger PUs as I feel I did well in this case when the
age-thing came up.
Me: I remember talking to you last time and I have to admit, I was struck by
how... (pause)... sweet and gentle you are. (she works at a local
supermarket that I shop at and I honestly asked her for help the other week,
not for any PU attempt at that time.)
Her: I'm blushing. (she's bright red with a big smile and she touches her
cheek nervously, very exuberant personality.)
Me: I didn't mean to make you blush. I know you're busy right now but how
about we get a chance to talk some other time.
Her: Yeah. (she says this quite anxiously and I take this as a clear IOI.)
Me: So are you in school.
Her: Yes
Me: What college?
Her: Oh, how old are you?
Me: 26.
Her: I'm 17. I'm a senior in ____ high school.
Me: (oh.. shock... but I continue on for the practice) I won't tell.
Her: (she laughs) I don't know, 26 might be a little bit too old for me.
Me: Are you not used to dating older men?
Her: I do, but not that old. I'd like to date in the age of 18 to maybe 21.
Me: Do you want to keep dating 18 year-olds or do want to go out with
someone... (pause)... who knows what he's doing. (score one to SS.)
Her: (she laughs) I'm really flattered but I don't know.
Me: I'd still like to get to know you and I think you should get to know me
before you pass judgement. (this line sound familiar?)
Her: It's a little crazy right now because I just broke up with my
ex-boyfriend and I'm still trying to work things out for myself.
Me: (kino on her forearm) I think that's perfect because I think you need to
move on.
Her: (she laughs) I am looking to talk to other people.
Me: How about I take down your number and we'll talk.
Her: ok, we can talk.
For experience sake and just to see how far I might be able push this, I
called a few days later but she's flaky and obviously rather nervous due to
our age difference. I don't continue any further with this for obvious
reasons as I ponder the many laws that would put me in jail, but I thought
I'd contribute this as material for the younger PUAs. And for clarity sake,
I date 21 and over (I might accept 18).


(In response to a question about how he is time managing 8 girlfriends) Ha!
To an extent I use David's advice and each girl has her night, but for the
most part I let them juggle me! Once I get them in the rotation I rarely
call them (except at 2:00am) and if I am bored when they call me I will let
them come over. I never go over to girls' houses anymore...Too much work
driving and parking and too many opportunities for distraction. The truth is
that I really don't care if they drop out of the rotation or not, so
sometimes they will disappear for a month or 2 and then my phone will ring
or I will see them at a bar and it's on again! I always have lots of
different women at different stages (got number, waiting to call, hooked up
with, boning, etc.) so I can broom chicks anytime I want cause I always have
more on hold.
I heard this rap CD where this pimp is talking, and he says "Some bitches
play this game like baseball...They get the bases loaded and start striking
niggas out. I play this game like basketball...I got hoes in the game, and
hoes on the bench, and if one fouls out, I replace her ass! And if a new ho
is coming up, I'll draft her ass!"
Its funny how girls try to make me jealous...This one girl I have been
hooking up with on and off (haven't boned yet - virgin!) just called me up
and told me a story about how she was at some guy Brian's party last night
and there was a weird sculpture in the family room. She asked about it and
found out it belonged to Brian's girlfriend! Oh NOO! Her so called "motive"
for calling was because I am friends with a girl (Melissa) that is friends
with Brian, and she wanted to know if he really had a girlfriend or not. I
told her to hang on and I started to do a 3 way call to Melissa and I would
ask her and she freaked out and wouldn't let me! Now I know that her real
motive for calling was to let me know that she was hooking up with someone
besides me! I guess she thought I would care or something. Girls are too
funny! At the end of the convo she asked if she was gonna see me tonight and
I said "Only if you call me!"


> Mark B.: "The second input I would like is from anyone who has had any
success in dealing with young flaky chicks. We all know the type, the ones
still under 25, live at home, have no real responsibility, have a former
boyfriend who is still their best friend who wants her back but she is not
sure what to do and teeters back and forth between wanting to be with him
and not wanting to be with him."

Stephane: Unfourtunately I've only been able to find TWO "techniques" that
work fairly consistently on young flakes and I prefer not to use them.
Flakes are only good for one thing: quickies!
The first is to encourage her to STAY with her BF! I'm serious. I tell her
that I'm a romantic guy -- "I want you to be happy" : )
I offer her 'emotional support' (just barely) and the more I reframe his
shitty behaviors, the more I push her in his direction, the more she finds
reasons OF HER OWN (very important) to LEAVE/REJECT him... It's basic
reverse psych. Because if I tell her to leave the jerk, her brain will think
about leaving him and then find a reason to stay. So I tell her stuff like
"You need to learn to forgive - nobody's perfect" and she goes, "Yeah but
what if he does that again?" But if I said "Leave him" she'll think, "I need
to learn to forgive" !! Erickson called it Prescribing The Symptom and boy
does it work.
The second way is to TREAT HER LIKE SHIT. It works. Too bad, huh? I don't
like doing it, but I used to. (In my more experimental days.)  As far as her
general flakiness and lack of responsibility goes -- it's the same thing
with all women. Mark you already know this so I'll say it for the newbies:
Never ever put up with bullshit of any kind or you'll pay the price (she
will repeat the shitty behaviors).
> Red Axe: " I started analyzing her handwriting. Everything was dead
on. She was blunt, sarcastic, emotionally withdrawn, and somewhat violent.
She agreed with all and said that when she was in high school, she used to
play floor hockey and hit people with the stick and pretend it was an
accident. Red flag anybody?"
Stephane: I know you really want to fuck this broad but my advice is RUN.  I
would have said, "Since you admit that you are blunt, sarcastic, withdrawn
and have violent tendencies then let me ask you: What steps have you taken
to OVERCOME those problems?"  She would probably say, "Uhh...I don't know"
or something equally STUPID and that's when you hit her with, "Let me know
when you have learned how to be respectful of others" and then WALK AWAY.
Let HER chase after YOU for a few months. Because you probably deserve
better than a cunt like that. If you let these women get away with
statements like that, they are TESTING you and if you let her admit that
she's a bitch without saying anything, without being truthful and TELLING
HER that those kind of behaviors are UNACCEPTABLE then you're setting
yourself up for her to eventually treat YOU that way. And she will. You have


Maximillian Hell:
Site that appears to solely promote The Art of Seduction», but it does say
that it has a forum "coming soon." - 13k


Last night was a night I can never forget. And it's nothing compared to what
is very likely to happen very soon.  I recently met a hot 19 year old? Well,
I saw her tonight. Sitting on a sofa in a great suffi coffee shop around the
corner from my place, we talked, I told her beautiful stories and
immediately took her hand and started to initiate contact. Within an hour I
started kissing her neck  and she melted. But then she told me that she had
a BF and that he was guy she liked alot even if he was young and
inexperienced...I gently but firmly went right through that and continued to
kiss and pattern her . Took her back to my place  and from there ... it was
great! I sat at the piano, played and made her melt. She started to kiss my
neck and run her gorgeous soft hands through my hair and down my back as I
was playing, making me connect not only with her but with the music in a way
that blew my mind!! We ended up on my couch with her incredible breasts in
my mouth, and there she admitted that though part of the reason she didn't
want to go all the way was because of lingering BF issues, the stronger
reason was that she was on the rag! So she said, "for tonight I just let you
starve!" and proceeded to give me a hand job...;-)
But this last part will make you all hate my guts.  Read the following and
rejoice with me bros:
We talked about my fantasies and since she was already aware of my love of
threesomes (seems like I already have a pretty strong rep!) she admitted to
me that she was disappointed that she had not yet had sex with another
woman. (how tragic! I wonder if there's anything I can do to help her!) At
which point I nearly lost consciousness and fought hard to recover to pursue
this and take it where it HAD to go...I told her about Bi Babe, whom I
invited to attend this concert Gabrielle (tonight 's babe) and I are going
to on Monday night. I told her how cool she was and so on... She asked me if
she was the one I was currently dating to which I replied that we were just
friends though we had slept together.  And then, she asked me what color her
hair and eyes were, if she was sexy and so on...I almost cried this was so
unreal. She said she was really hoping to meet her on Monday and was totally
cool with the idea of having a threesome with her. So now, whether or not Bi
Babe can make it on Monday, I can invite her over at some other point to
meet my new "friend" and see how things go...
Believe it or not guys, but when she realized that I was the only guy she
knew who could get her to experience a threesome THAT's when the bra came
off and I got a hand job!!


Heat (reposted from Mystery's Lounge with permission of the author):
Woke up late for my class today red eyed with bedhead. Caught the bus and
sat in the first seat cuz I'm too lazy to walk down the aisle. Second stop
after mine we pick up a cheerleader...I know this because I've seen her in
the gym and on tv. She has a pink coat and a pink bookbag on. When she sat
down she smelled like a cinnabun. What is she doing wearing open toed
shoes - it's like 30 degrees outside.
HEAT: You must like the color pink...
HBCinnabun: yea, it's kind of girlie!
HEAT: even your toes are pink...
HBCinnabun: you're very observant...
HEAT: your toes are cute but who are you?
HBCinnabun: who are you?
HEAT: I bet you have alot of boyfriends...
.....she doesn't know what to say...
HBCinnabun: why do you say that?
HEAT: Do you like that show Sex in the City?
HBCinnabun: sort of.  why?
HEAT: that show is a bad influence on you girls, all of you have Carrie
HBCinnabun: what is your name?
HBCinnabun: HEAT?
HEAT: Look, I gotta get off on the next stop, you can call me if you want...
....I get some laughs from this one....
HBCinnabun: you should call me...
HEAT: I don't know your number....
HBCinnabun: (starts looking thru her PINK bookbag)
HEAT: just whisper it in my ear, I'll call you Sunday, I gotta work this
HBCinnabun: (trying to be all seductive) blabla bla that's my cell phone
HEAt: Look, I am very busy, but I do have some free time after my first
class, let's go to Starbucks.
HBCinnabun: ok, walk me to class.
HEAT: alright
HEAT: you never told me how many boyfriends you had...
HBCinnabun: 3
HEAT: whatever, I'll be at Starbucks at 11:30 and you can kiss me when I get
there and buy me a cup of coffee.
HBCinnabun: Are you always like this?
HEAT: (Are you trying to neg hit me?) I'm tired, I'm going to go sleep thru
my class...see you later.
HBCinnabun: ok, but you don't know my name...
HEAt: What is it?
HBCinnabun: Kelly
HEAT: See you at 11:30 Kelly.
Kelly is drooling on my pillow right now. She has a pink thong on. This is
my field report. ~FEELME~


I thought I'd post a quick field report for you guys that just happened
tonight... I had an Online chick meeting flake last minute so I went out
to study.
The setting: Starbucks Coffee shop (11/26/2002)
It was about 7:30 pm and I had just sat down to study. Of course I picked a
location right next to an HB8.5 brunette... (MUCH cuter than the gal from
online that I was going to originally meet) late 20's, shorter hair like the
gal from "Birds of Prey". She was wearing a Black jacket with a fur lined
collar and black skin tight pants. Under the black jacket she had a very low
cut shirt that revealed her very nice sized tits (at least D here) which
looked too perfect to be real... (they weren't real I later found out) but
nonetheless she looked hot. She was reading something too and glanced up at
me... I made it a point to catch her eye and smile.
I noticed what she was reading (Some women's magazine) and I commented on
it... which led to some small talk and some ball busting about her looking
too sexy to be out for just coffee... (I don't mind small talk, busting
balls, and being cocky and funny to start things off... it just makes a gal
feel like you are someone she can be comfortable around. One point though,
is that I never let up... I keep the ball rolling.)
Her name was Lisa.
I then went into some cold reading about her... she was definitely very
sexual and sensual, a "physical type", a do'er, someone who would rather do
things than just think about doing them, also someone that enjoyed herself
and could let go at times..., being at home in her own body, knowing what
she likes, and what she wants... the type of person who just goes for it..."
I went on a little bit more with the cold read and then switched to an
elicitation... "So what do you look for in a guy? What is attractive to
you?"... She seemed to be feeling somewhat vulnerable at this point and she
said, "I've been telling all about me... I feel kind of vulnerable, you know
all this stuff about me, and I don't know anything about you..." So I went
into some small talk, a little about me... and then went right back in to
the elicitation...
"So you were telling me, what is it that you find attractive about a guy...
and how do you know that you're attracted to this guy?" She thought a little
and said, "No, you tell me what YOU want and what you find attractive..."
"Passion" I said... "Where you can just let go of everything, and just enjoy
this with all your heart... where right now, this is the only thing that
really matters, where only this moment exists and you can just lose yourself
in this sense of passion with this person..."
Yeah... "Sweet surrender" she said as she smiled... "So what is sweet
surrender?" I said. "I don't know... it's just when you can just release all
your inhibitions, and you just give yourself fully to someone... I'm a very
passionate person," she said...
"In what ways are you passionate?" I said... "Well I'm very physically
passionate... I love to cum, and have orgasms one right after another..."
At this point, there were people beginning to listen to the convo so I said,
"Let's go outside and sit where we can talk without other people listening."
So we move outside in front of Starbucks and sat at a table in the corner...
"So what were you telling me about?... about how you're passionate
physically... what you get out of being passionate..."
"I'm not just physically passionate, I'm also passionate about LIFE... I
give 110% of myself to every situation..."
"Yeah, I think you can be physically passionate, emotionally passionate, and
intellectually passionate... Passion is just something that you are... it's
your world and the way you live life... isn't it..."
We fluffed a little more about me, because she wanted to know a little more
of what I do, what kinds of things I enjoyed and about my past
girlfriends... I skirted some of those topics, but kept it light...
Since it was starting to get cold, I said... "You know, it's getting cold...
let's go sit somewhere warm... how about your car, do you have a heater?..."
As I held her hand and stood up. "Ok" she said and we started walking toward
her car. She actually had a large sized Chevy Truck so we climbed in, turned
the heat on, and continued talking.
I started to bring up the "physical" thing again but she said, "You keep
talking about sex... not that I'm not interested, but I'd like to talk about
something else for a little bit..."
"I'm not the one that brought it up! about Physical passion, I meant it like
having a passion for life. You're right, we shouldn't be talking about
this... it will make us too hot and bothered... and we're enjoying it too
much... you shouldn't think about sex..."
"You know", I said, "You seem tense right here" as I reached over to the
back of her neck area and began to massage the back of her neck. "You seem
to store alot of tension right here..." as I continued and began to move
closer in to her and brushing her face... (She was a "physical type" and I
felt pretty confident with just moving in with the sexual kino...)
She responded by moving her lips to my hands and we were then making out big
I pulled her leg over to on top of me, put the seat back and pulled her on
top of me, straddling me. We continued the making out and started grinding
big time... I put my hands down her back, down her pants, and felt her
crack... no underwear as I squeezed her bare cheeks. Then she whipped out
her huge tits and put them right in my mouth. She was a VERY kinky and
uninhibited gal and she started sucking on HER OWN tit as I was sucking her
nipple and kissing her mouth at the same time (That's how big her tits
were!) THEN she asked me to BITE her nipples... and kept saying "Harder...
BITE it with your teeth... make it hurt... let me know you want me." So I
complied although I was kind of scared that I may make her bleed!
Then she starts getting nasty and says, "Every woman wants to be treated
like a slut,.. say "Fuck me, little slut" say "Fuck me, little whore"...
Needless to say, I complied because she kept saying "SAY IT" until I did...
As far as the rest of the report, you guys can just use you imagination...
let's just say that we made her truck rock, and she was LOUD... I was
worried about getting arrested because there were people in the parking lot,
and she had multiple squirting orgasms which literally squeezed me out of
her several times...
Questions, Comments, Realizations?

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

This is an archive of a free e-mail list relating to seduction, maintained by "Clifford".  Your comments are requested, encouraged, and greatly appreciated (note that comments from different people are separated by IIIIIIII’s).  If you know anyone who would like to be added to the list, or if you would like to be removed from the list, send an e-mail asking to be added or removed to
cli***f@cl***.com[ ? ] and it will be done.  If you would like to be added to the free joke list, just ask.  For those of you unfamiliar with the references to Speed Seduction»Â®, Clifford highly recommends your visiting  For those interested in seeing the previous e-mails that were sent out ("the archives"), they are available on request to Clifford or, preferably, can be browsed and searched at the archive at

By your accessing this archive, you understand that the information contained in within is an expression of opinions, and they should be used for personal entertainment purposes only.  You are responsible for your own behavior, and none of anything you read herein is to be considered legal or personal advice.  You also understand and agree that any products you may order as a result of your reading about them in this archive are produced and sold independently from us and that any complaints, disputes or other issues which you may have with the sponsors of these products are to be dealt with directly with said sponsors and we are not responsible in any way whatsoever for any issues which you may have with them.   If you are not in agreement with any of this, please leave his site now.

This newsletter and the newsletter archive in general is reproduced here with Clifford’s permission.  Visual enhancements and search features have been added by the webmaster to facilitate the reading and researching of the content.  The raw text as it appears here is exactly as it appeared in the original e-mail newsletter.  Products, services, or external web sites mentioned or linked to in this archive does not denote endorsement of those items.  The contents reprinted here are the opinion of the original writer(s) and are not necessarily the opinion of, nor endorsed by, the owner(s) or operator(s) of  The archive enhancements are generated automatically and there may be occasions where the visual cues don’t correlate exactly with the textual context; most of the time, though, the enhancements are pretty accurate.  The archive is updated as regularly as possible, whenever new newsletters are sent out.

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