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The ladies are marking their territory
1/3/03 2:37:36 PM Eastern Standard Time


Cliff's List Website

Please go to the website for a full list of the rules, disclaimers, suggested
links and referrals to other seduction sites and explanations of what this list
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as is a glossary of terms that may be used here that you may be unfamiliar with.


Ross Jeffries (  The Intelligent Man's Way To Have Power
And Choice With Women):
> Rio:  I'd love to think that women will treat you well if you treat them well.
This is not the case. Women go out into the world, subconsciously to meet an
alpha-male who will be critical of them and their
appearance/style/attitude/sexual ability, and so they WILL try for this imagined
man in their head.

Ross: I told you to never, NEVER generalize. It is ALWAYS an inaccurate thing to
do. People who generalize ALWAYS have control and emotional issues.
Now..seriously...I have a question. Setting aside the specifics of what you are
saying and just dealing with things from an information theory point of view,
HOW do you know all this?
In other words, what was your PROCESS for coming to believe what you say is true
enough to be an accurate description for the deeper motivations of virtually
In philosophy, there is a branch of the field known as epistemology: the study
of how we can know things.
In my own experience, through observation, trial and error, I've found women can
be as idiosyncratic and individualistic as to what they respond to as any other
human, and while some general traits and trends are good to be aware of,
especially among certain age groups, it is ALWAYS WISER to learn to observe and
In other words, instead of relying on a theory that will cover ALL women, learn
to scan, observe, cleverly question the person IN FRONT OF YOU.
Oftentimes, when people generalize, it is used as a means to make up for a
fundamental skill set that they don't even know they are missing.
> Rio:  They expect this man to be critical of all of these things. So you must
be that man and size her up.... and this is how you do it, by telling her
honestly and straight up... that you were looking for a passionate woman to be
in your life, but she doesn't cut it, and so the date ends here... and you will
never see her again. If you are looking for the missing skill that turns cold
women red hot again, I am telling you what it is.

Ross:  I am 100% sure you have done this. I'm not so sure your explanation as to
why it is working is correct.  Is it because they are looking for someone to be
critical of them and the criticism is what turns them on? Or is it because you
are suddenly taking away something they had been resisting and now, like most
humans, male and female, they are suddenly afraid of missing out?
What if you could get them excited enough to want you, based on your knowing how
they uniquely respond, so you wouldn't have to worry about her being "cold" in
the first place?
> Rio:  All the chicks you are meeting actually don't have issues, and if they
did and they wanted you badly anyway, they wouldn't talk about them or let them
get in the way of boinking you. I actually thought that most women had issues
too until I realized that I was falling into their shit-testing trap, and was
not far off being in friendship land.

Ross:  I am confused. Wouldn't you say that subconsciously searching for someone
to be hyper-critical of them constitutes an "issue". I would say if that is the
primary driver for a woman's interest, she's got some SERIOUS issues, to say the
Perhaps you will make this more clear.
> Ross:  See, if a woman was interested in you sexually, she wouldn't tell you
any of her fucked up bullshit life.

Ross:  I agree because she'd be afraid of scaring you away.
> Rio:  She would spare you the pain. Plus, what kind of alpha-male would be
impressed by it? An alpha-male would simply screen her out for being fucked up.
Like, SHE KNOWS that telling a guy her problems and issues is not going to score
any points with him... definitely NOT on the LTR side of things anyway!

Ross:  It will scare a guy who has choices away from her.
> Rio: Whenever a chick tells you her problems, she is really saying "Wow, he'll
put up with all my bullshit. He must be a desperate loser-man with no standards
for women he hangs out with, and since he has nothing better to do, I'll take
advantage of it and turn him into a friend!"

Ross:  Or she simply has no emotional control, or what is even more twisted that
you haven't considered is THIS:
She considers her emotions and drama to be her most precious possessions, and
I shit you not; here is where you find women with REAL issues. They really
think, because THEY treasure their warped emotions and histrionics, that they
bring these to YOU as a gift. This is a real layer of pathology and women like
this DON'T fear scaring you away, because they see NOTHING to be scared of in
this. These are the histrionic drama queens that can make your life miserable.
I agree, however, that when a more emotionally stable girl tells you her
problems, PRIOR TO FUCKING YOU, it's usually because she is NOT attracted to you
and therefore is NOT scared of driving you away.
> Rio:  Every time a woman says "Why is it that all men want women for sex....
it is so bad" or she says "I don't like sex" she is really saying.... "Wow, I
can't believe that you would even stay with me this long without even bothering
to check me out as relationship material or for my sexual ability. I'm starting
to wonder if I can get away doing this to attract other men in the future? Am I
really this hot? Let me push the envelope by saying "I don't like sex" or "I was
raped" or "I hate men" or "I've been fucked by 20 guys at once" to see if this
is too good to be true!"

Ross:  Hmmm..women are humans. Humans get hurt, put through pain, abuse, etc.
Don't underestimate the POSSIBILITY that a woman can be carrying some real pain,
problems, etc. The fact that she gives YOU a boner doesn't mean she isn't
carrying her own real loads of pain, fear, limits, etc.
> Rio:  And don't forget, women EXPECT to be screened by men! They want to see
their scorecard! My LTR got approached by a bunch of high-school guys who were
still learning the ropes the other day. They asked her what her name was, and
then how old she was, and then ran out of material and then left! What perked my
ears up is that my LTR said afterwards "They must have run away because I was
too old for them!". It was like she felt that she was screened out by them
because of her age, and she couldn't understand why that was!

Ross: mean it is possible for a person to have a pre-set explanation
for the behavior of others that, in reality, has NO correlation with those
others' REAL motivations and reasons? What if that truth applied to YOUR filters
and beliefs about the motivations of ALL women? Hmmmm....what is the REAL lesson
to be learned here?
> Rio: In reality, those guys just didn't know what to say and how to act, got
scared and left!

Ross:  So your LTR had a strong belief about the motivations of others that was
TOTALLY INCORRECT and caused her to draw the wrong conclusion. Maybe it is
possible that women often don't trust their emotions, don't know what to do or
say and that THIS produces much of the behavior that guys INSIST must be
deliberate and calculated "ball-busting" and "shit-testing".
> Rio: Subconsciously, they don't know why they try to beautify themselves, but
the reason is because that they are hoping to use it to impress the alpha-male
in their imagination. So the more they fuss over their looks... the more they
expect men to do the same.

Ross: Give them credit; women are well aware they beautify themselves to have
more power, choice and attractiveness with men and also to beat out their female
competition. I don't think this is subconscious at all, not one little bit.
> Rio: She's the one who has to try, she's always the one..... Some of the
comments I make may sound arrogant. Some of the comments I make may sound
chauvinistic. Some of the comments may make me sound selfish and demanding....
but if you accept only the best for your LTRs... funny how you will often get
women trying for it. Having standards is a must.

Ross:  I think what you are saying is a-ok, as far as the paragraph above. I
don't think you are chauvinistic; I do think you are over-generalizing and may
not be paying attention to some unique responses to the woman in front of you
because you are looking at women through a filter that colors your perceptions
(much as your LTR had HER perceptions of the motives of those young guys in the
bar that constituted a TOTAL mis-read of what was really going on with them).
> Rio:  Plus this is all OK in the woman's mind. You are searching for a life-
partner, and you have EVERY RIGHT to be selective for your "soul-mate" that you
will spend a lot of time with and possibly your life... (that's what they think,
anyway...). Just look at "The Bachelor" on TV. That bachelor is fully pimping
the place out, and women think he's a decent guy! Nobody thinks he's a player
(except maybe that chick who accused him of kissing all the girls but was also
disappointed that she didn't get invited by him to the next stage of the
game)!... and yes, if you point out that you are looking for that one special
lady... women will not think that you are a player either.

Ross:  You might also talk yourself out of good fuck for someone who might not
want the pressure of being "that one special lady". Would YOU want the pressure
of being that "one special man"?
Don't underestimate a woman's desire to have a good fuck, no strings attached,
if it is set up right. There is a better reframe for the player objection which
has worked for me AND many of my students.
Her: You're just a player
You: You're right; I DO love to play with people on all sorts of levels. But I
also truly care about and care for the people I play with, I'm honest about what
I want, and I never want to do anything unless it's what we're both totally
comfortable with and both totally sure of. you have a problem with
So, what you are doing is reframing what "player" means, from something evil,
dishonest, self-centered and bad to being an opportunity for her to be with
someone great...but it ALSO has to be true for you. You have to really believe
and live by those things. If you don't really care for or about those you play
with...if you LIE...if you don't care if they are truly comfortable and truly
want what you are offering, then the reframe will be incongruent and will drive
them away.

The biggest challenge and MOST alpha of attitudes is not to be harshly critical
but to live by what I just laid down, and to really be willing to walk if she
can't rise to the challenge of being in that place with you.
> Rio:  Does it work all the time? No... some bitches will just screen you out
for no reason because that's the only man-trapping technique they have at their
disposal. Then, of course, you can screen them for that and ditch them
immediately... to save wasting time. More often than not though, you will get
women who want to play within the confines of the frame you created....... !
Let's play devil's advocate for a minute and suppose that you are fed up with a
particular chick because she is being cold, not acting interested, giving off
"don't touch me" vibes, and is generally being lazy and not trying to impress
you in the sexiness department. Hopefully by now, you would have pointed out
that friendly, sexy chicks are your type.... Since you have created the frame,
you can get to play it out to the end... "Well, it seems that you really aren't
the sort of woman I'm looking for in a relationship. Goodbye. I suppose I'll
never see you again then".  What does this achieve? Well, firstly, if she's just
going to be a lazy bee-yatch... good riddance.... but also note that a woman
(unless she is a player herself) is not going to throw away a decent
relationship when presented with a FREEBIE right under her nose! The male
equivalent of rejecting this would be turning down an offer of sex from a sexy
chick! She's not likely to be comfortable with losing you permanently and flake
on you unless she has other better guys in the wings as back-up... and if that's
the case... good riddance anyway!

Ross:  I agree they will respond, but not for the reasons you state. They will
respond because suddenly what they took for granted is now about to be taken
away and HUMANS, male and female, respond to fear of loss more than they do the
desire for gain, FOR THE MOST PART, in MOST contexts. (not all humans and not
all the time...see, I can avoid generalizing, USUALLY!)
>  Rio:  In conclusion: SET THE FRAME for your interaction with her. It makes
all those other techniques we talk about all the more powerful, focused, and

Ross: I talk about this in my LA Frame Control videos, available from
Straightforward: 1-903-482-1034. Tell 'em Ross sent you.
> Rio: Coming to try and find a balance between the two evils has been my main
focus. That is, how can I PU chicks successfully and not be seen as a total dick
by other guys and the women I am with at some point later in time. I suppose I
would like to really enjoy the women I screw, and to have them stick around for
a change. (No, I'm not getting married anytime soon!)

Ross:  You're right about setting a frame, but you aren't clear on the beliefs
about yourself and about women, and what constitutes an ideal interchange.
> Rio: Remember, the game for women is to see how much they can suck from guys
and get away with it.

Ross:  Let me suggest that holding that belief will limit you to frames that
will limit your success, because they have a limited view of what drives and
motivates women.  I think women, generally speaking (with the pathological
exceptions I've already discussed), want great feelings and great states of
mind, but they aren't quite clear on how to get it, what kinds of guys will
bring it to them, and they are most of them running around on auto-pilot,
confused, or doing things and selecting guys they think SHOULD make them happy,
but don't.
Show them a better way to have better feelings with you, get them to confirm
this for themselves that this is true, be a bit strong in giving them a good,
but FUN lead, and they will lay themselves at your feet for the chance to be
with you, oftentimes OUTSIDE OF TRADITIONAL COURTSHIP FRAMES, including LTR.
The limit of your frame is that it still accepts/postulates women as creatures
who want to suck things out of you and give you nothing, the only difference
being that in what YOU do, you don't let them do any sucking because you reverse
the equation and get them to prove what they can do for YOU, prove they are good
enough for an LTR. Problem is, it still leaves them expecting an LTR with you,
as that is what you are "screening for" and so they are going to view YOU
through the filters of all their previous LTR experiences with all the emotional
baggage, limiting beliefs, emotional ploys, drama, etc. etc. etc.
In effect, you are living down to THEIR expectations instead of stepping THEM up
to a better place for BOTH of you. You're winning, in the short term, but losing
out because of what she brings along with her, once she responds to your
"screening". You're setting yourself up for histrionics and drama from her.
> Rio: This is just one such shit-test which (if you listen to it) will open the
door in her mind to heap more and worse shit onto you to deal with, and take you
for granted. Then when things go wrong with her issues... YOU GET THE BLAME! I
have had women do this to me on several occasions, and there is no other
explanation for it other than that. They probably don't realize that they do it
to us..... but they do.

Ross:  Because that is what MANY women believe is par for the course in an LTR.
It certainly ISN'T what women do with their wild, fantasy, fling-fucks and
affairs. They fuck the living hell out of THOSE guys and dump their "problems"
on their bore-friends.
> Rio: About romance.... my slick factor increased when I viewed her as LTR
material. I read once from David Shade that women find it romantic when they
have to try and win a man's heart, and that is what they find romantic... when
they finally win the heart of a man who doesn't give a shit about them!

Ross:  A pathological exaggeration of a fundamental truth: humans will usually
value something more when they have to work to get it, and that which is
occasionally with-held tastes much more tastier once it is given back to us. So
I don't think we have to go to the extreme of "not giving a shit"; we simply
have to avoid smothering or being so far beyond what they are used to that it
confuses or scares them away. We also have to avoid being so eager than we
interrupt their OWN processes for deciding they want us.
>  Rio:  This sounded good in theory, but I had no way to make this theory work
for me. For that reason, you can't just offer a woman a relationship (what she
wants) and then press her for sex. That is not romantic... it's too easy for her
to win. On the other hand, you can't treat her like shit and demand sex...
that's impossible for her to win and enjoy (unless she is a 10 pressed for a
challenge).   There had to be a balance.... and Elvis Presley found it. Elvis
fans (apparently) noted that what made Elvis so successful was that he was
actually viewed and acted in a way (in his movies) that he was actually looking
for a woman for the long-term... thing is, he often danced in a way that was
obviously and blatantly sexual. It was a combination of good-cop/bad-cop that
sucked in many a woman's imagination.

Ross:  Hmmm..he was also an icon and fantasy figure. I wouldn't extrapolate too
many working ideas for us guys who don't fit those blue suede shoes, my man.
> Rio: Communicating to a chick that you are viewing her as couple material
automatically sends her into romantic mode...

Ross:  I agree, and therein lies the problem: she will bring with that mode all
her prejudices, fears, stuck ways of being, old anchors, limiting beliefs "I
don't fuck guys unless I know them for a couple of months", etc. etc. whatever.
Grrrr..Brrrr...I try like hell to avoid that, ANYWAY I CAN. That is what SS is
all about.
> Rio: All chicks are narcissists. Well, normal narcissism is OK, but I was
reading a book on Freud and abnormal narcissism. This deserves another thread
really, because it is interesting. This is what happens to chicks when the
erotic attachment does not become focused on men, but rather herself. That's
when chicks go into paranoia, hearing voices, and other forms of neurosis... and
when this happens, these women cannot be reached for therapy through sexual

Ross:  It's these histrionic women that ironically are most likely to respond to
this "romantic" challenge you are setting up because really, it allows them to
totally focus on THEIR strong feelings and needs to win you over, without even
really seeing what you might REALLY want and desire in the moment...they are too
focused on the goal to see the person! You get what you set up, my man!

Note: the opinions in the preceding post do not reflect the views of Tazzleberry
or Tabbatha cat and are purely the ramblings and thoughts of their Daddy, RJ.
Nothing in the preceding post shall be construed to be an offering of "truth"
but merely the author's take on what is going on. The author is fully aware he
could well be wrong, full of shit and totally off-base...but nonetheless
challenges the readers to ponder the deeper implications of how what we believe
creates what we get, and how all humans, female and male, are strongly affected
by this dynamic. Shalom and Happy New Year!


Here is an idea for anyone. Get together with some wing's, everyone puts in $5
dollars. An extra incentive for success.
I have noticed an interesting thing when sarging for the last few days. When you
are not in state, a great thing to do is play a game of crash and burns. I did
this with a wing, and the funny thing was the interest we were getting from all
these chicks we were playing with. We actually turned out to have heaps of fun,
got into state, and we actually started to get heaps of interest from all these
chicks in stores, etc.
So if anyone is reading this and hasn't applied all this PU knowledge to life,
don't underestimate the fun and value of a game of C&B
---Attention all Pick-Up Artists and Aspiring Pick-up Artists in Perth, Western
Introducing the Perth Pick-Up Outing
A regular tour of Perth, to meet and seduce all the various beautiful girls in
and around our city.
Meeting at least once a week, in a designated spot, then from there touring all
the various locations to seduce lovely young lasses. The objective is to have as
much fun as possible and seduce as many lovely girls as you can! It is also a
meeting place, to discuss techniques, meet fellow players, share resources and
just run amok.
There will be heaps of competitions and cool prizes, including:
***A cash jackpot as an extra incentive for the most seductions, includes the
most numbers, kiss closes or fuck closes
***An “Alpha male» behaviour” award for the person who exhibits the most
outrageous Alpha male» behaviour. Eg. Ballsy, Hilarious Stunts
***The numbers award. Where for 20 minutes, everyone has to pick-up for the
winner of the most numbers/closes!
Dress: Smart Casual/Pimp/Different
All money goes towards rewards for outstanding effort in getting muff!  Contact:
pjo***y@ho***.com[ ? ] for more info


Would you like to greatly improve your relationships, sales skills, business
success and social life, but feel that some important ingredient is missing?
Brazil's foremost specialist in mental manipulation and attraction shares his
secrets for the development of an irresistible, hypnotic personality.

Cliff's Comment:  Anyone care to check this out and let us know what you find


Rio's post was excellent, and I thought your comments were on the money, and in
particular your perspective on pick-up is close to mine.
Basically, it's pick up put into the form of a perfectly ethical situation. You
say what you want. She falls in line or doesn't. Not manipulation. Not coercion.
No unfulfilled expectations. Being honest and having integrity.  Certainly you
want to control how you approach things and the way in which you are open, since
you only have so much time in life and there's no sense wasting it. And
congruency of action, word, and thought is key. Why? Because that is what
integrity means, and that is what makes you DESERVE the amazing woman you're
looking for.
On another topic, I started an argument (while writing the above) with a friend
of mine who believes that humans need rules to force them to do the right thing.
I think that doing the right thing has lots of rewards all its own (which is not
to say that there shouldn't be accountability-- in fact, there should be more
accountability than we have, despite our Draconian legal system). No common
ground. Very frustrating. In religion, I say the rules are there because they're
supposed to be guidelines for how an individual can live the happiest possible
life, and by extension of lots of people being happy and encouraging others to
be happy, having a happy society. He says the rules are there to shape us into
the most efficient possible society, so that people can be happy. But happiness
is an internal process according to every religion I know. I mean, when Jesus
said, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you," He didn't put in a
clause that said "unless you're a group, in which case do what you think is best
for the majority."  Security or freedom is what it comes down to, I guess. I
side with freedom and he with security. I find the security I need within
myself. Confidence in your abilities is true security.


Magic "Bad Boy" Pierre:
Having just done the LA workshop with Mystery, I can honestly say that the guy
is a master  . . . of disaster.  No, just kidding.  He was very inspirational
and I saw his method work right in front of my eyes when he was kissing a girl
(complete stranger) within 10 minutes of entering a bar.  His method of
approaching women (and groups of people in particular) has to be seen to be
believed.  And I would recommend anyone who is thinking of doing his workshops
in Australia or USA to do so  . . . fast.   My skills and confidence has lifted
up to a whole new level after the last workshop with him.

Not only do I now have the skills to approach groups of girls, but also mixed
groups (guys and girls), which I would not have done before.  His practical
encouragement and methods are so easy to learn that anyone who is serious about
having LOTS of choice with women must do his workshop.  The best thing about
Mystery's workshops is the small numbers they accept and the very specific one-
on-one feedback he and Style (his amazing wingman) give you right on the spot to
correct any mistakes.

Since coming back home, I have had so many amazing experiences with beautiful
women that it is almost like a dream.  It's as if Mystery gave me the wings to
soar above all the other AFCs and take my pick of all the beautiful women out
there, swoop down and carry them off at my leisure.  It's so easy for me now  .
. . that if the word gets out about this . . . I may get arrested for ruining it
for all the other AFCs out there.  Sorry guys : ): )

Got to go . . . By the way, yesterday I kiss closed 3 girls and now have to
choose from 4 girls who want to spend New Year's Eve with me.  It's a tough
life.  Maybe I'll get them all over and make it a REAL fun night!!!


aa aa:
Here's a site with a collection of pick-up lines. Some are useful, some need
some work, and some are just funny:
Incidentally, my latest sarge was a bit of an eye-opener. I was sarging a girl
in the mall, a young 18 year-old, when she said, "I have a boyfriend." Not
really in the mood to do extensive SS BF-Destroyer, I simply said, "You know, I
don't really care if you have a boyfriend." To which she was shocked, but yet
brought a huge grin onto her face. My realization? Perhaps this should be my
first BF-Destroyer. That is by saying "I don't care", I am congruent with the
alpha-male status, and I am explicitly implying that she can keep her boyfriend
and still be with me at the same time. My first BF-Destroyer before this has
been: "If it isn't anything serious and you're just kinda dating, then I think
you and I should get to know each other." I've been wondering if chick-logic
would construe this as "she has to choose between me or him." In which case, she
would be less inclined to allow herself to open up to someone else. When framed
in a way where she does not have to choose between one or the other (at least
not yet), this may give her more of an excuse to get to know me at the same


La Piovra:
If you don't know where you're going how do you expect to get there?
I don't remember where I saw this but it comes handy here....
1. Beliefs. Ross, Svengali and Alphahot1 talk about this at length. There are
some who don't believe beliefs are important (Mystery). I have found they
changed my life not only with respect to women but in great many other ways.
There are many ways to change beliefs/install new ones. The bottom line: If you
believe you can, you can and vice versa.
2. Your personality and the style you're comfortable with. Some are better with
club chicks, some work wonders at Starbucks, yet others are church specialists.
You need to figure what you're comfortable with and what sarging style better
fits your persona. You can't pretend to be Rambo type personality if you're a
quiet introvert software developer and vice versa. I think a great many guys
either don't know about who they really are or don't take time to discover and
their luck occurs in a haphazard way. Svengali makes it a point to learn about
3. This will somewhat relate to #2 Type of women you want.  Classy divas at posh
parties or trailer park chicks? Or anywhere else in the spectrum? You have to be
honest here. Now, not to see this as a limitation, 'cause some pro's like
Alphahot1 can successfully go for many types of women, but for most guys it will
require a great deal of learning how to read the human mind and act on it.
Initially, IMHO you have to set your goals on one, maybe two types of girls and
then develop your game. As you develop it enough to where you feel comfortable
with it, expand your types.
4. Have an open mind to notice and learn. There is a great old Chinese tale
about a guy who wanted to learn wisdom from a sage and came over to his house
and while being offered a cup of tea was really impatient. The sage took his cup
and flipped it over then. The guy got really mad and the sage told him:" You
first need to empty the cup, if you want to put something in it. Empty your
mind, otherwise you can't learn new things." Here my realization is that it is
important to learn concepts, not tricks or gimmicks. Be ready to admit you're
wrong and change your model of life simply because life will keep amazing you in
ways you don't dream about. An open mind helps.
5. Practice. My idea here is step by step. First you master how to be friendly,
then how to be seductive, then how to be the one who gets chased. You can't get
to stage three without the first two. Many guys that I personally know want to
just get laid. This is all good and understandable but for those of us who have
made a commitment to "get this part of my life handled" (thank you, Sisonpyh for
this) this isn't even about getting laid. Getting laid comes as a reward for a
new, shining, provocative and mysterious personality equipped with tools to deal
with human minds... now, after a year, I see that the concepts we're discussing
here can be taken to great lengths in other areas of life, because we learn to
deal with people, not just women. Think about it - we learn how to deal with
women and at the same time learn the limitations of an average AFC to deal with
them, too.. evil, isn't it? That's why I say: Guys, work on concepts, not tricks
'cause you want to have a universal tool, rather than a simple hammer.
6. Self analysis. I think this is an important step some ignore. This is as
important as any of the previous ones.  Because without self analysis there is
no progress.  After you come home, write it down and think about it. What went
right/wrong? What could have been done differently? I realized that by ignoring
this step I essentially returned to square one. My skills improved in some
areas, but I feel that I still don't know how much I learned/internalized during
this year. Just reading Cliff's list and trying new things is not enough (though
it is a damn good way to start!!). Human beings have to internalize a
concept/method to use it the way seduction concepts need to be used: quickly,
efficiently and appropriately. Mastery takes time, thought and effort. Make sure
you don't live the "thought " part out...


Papa (reposted from Mystery's Lounge with permission from the author, who also
revised it slightly for this posting):
My first weekend in San Francisco sargin and I got a new wardrobe, my first
manicure/pedicure, met up with some fuckin cool guys (Matador and Frenchman),
and a great lay report for» brothers. Using Mystery
method» and massive social proof really tightened my Game and is the foundation
of my success in this field report.
Saturday night, Matador and I go to Ruby Skye to meet up with Frenchman and a
booze bus. We decided to pay $35 to go on a party bus tour. Like a Cancun booze
tour, this bus rolls from Ruby Sky and you bar hop from club to club, while
getting free cover and an hour at several of SF’s hottest clubs.
8:30PM Hooking up with Southerner Twins
To start the night hot, I look around the dance club and socialize with everyone
around the club. The first floor is dead so I decide to check out the second
floor and see a pair of sexy southerners and I am excited. So I walk up and
smile with "Hey, is the party over here?!?" The girls reply, "Yeah. We were just
checking you out. [giggles]"
They aren’t at the club for the Bus so I bust their balls for not being with the
cool crew, and Matador enters the set soon after. While he occupies one of the
twins, I take the hotter of the two girls aside and do a rune reading on a
brilliantly lit red altar. As a reward for giving her a rune cast, I kiss her
and then we go downstairs.
The bus crew has arrived and I say hello to Frenchman and sign in. The twins are
catching a flight out to North Carolina at 4:00AM, but they said that they might
be at the club when I return to the club. The Bus will return to the club at 1
AM. So I think that I may have a backup lay if I don’t find a girl to bring home
on my tour.
9:30PM Sharing the Love at Caliente
The Party Bus arrives at a salsa club and, in all modesty, I am an outstanding
dancer. So I immediately grab a girl and bring her out on the dance floor. She’s
a large-breasted attractive woman and a great dancer, too. And after a couple
songs, I leave HB Latino Dancer and decide to work the room.
I talk to all of the girls in the house, joke around, high five guys, and have
girls kiss me. After 30 minutes, my face is covered in lip stick with kiss
marks, and girls and guys are approaching me and telling me that lipstick is on
my face. I reply, "The ladies are marking their territory."
Well, after dancing with a few other hot babes, I decide that built enough
massive social proof and re-approach HB Latino Dancer. A dance and a rune
reading later, I am kissing HB Latino Dancer and she introduces me to her
friends. One of them is a psychic and is celebrating her bachelorette party. Her
friends love me.
10:30 PM Making Out on the Bus
Soon, the bus is off and I sit down next to Frenchman and Matador. We talk about
the club while the rest of the passengers are getting aboard. One of the groups
on the bus is a set of several AFCs with HBs. Walking down the aisle, one of the
attractive girls looked at me and said, "Where are you from?"
I laugh at her and say, "Where are you from?!? Is that the best pickup line
you’ve gone. You kidding me!!! Where you from?"
She says, "No. Really. Where are you from?"
I retort with a "Joey from the TV show, Friends, accent", "No, baby! Where you
She decides to sit down next to me as I pretend to be trying to dodge her and
says, "Tell me where you from."
I continually reply to her silly question, "Where are you from?" in a louder and
louder voice until I just grab her and start making out with her. One of the
chumps she came with pulls her off of me and drags her to the back of the bus.
Matador is afraid that the guys want to start a fight with me, but I shrug it
off cuz it’s not a first.
10:45 PM Free Shots and VIP Fun
The next club is a large dance club and I see an attractive waitress that is
selling jello shots. I walk straight up to her and say, "Mmmm. Hey, give me a
jello shot for free." She refuses so I say, "Hey, come on! I’m the most
entertaining guy that you'll meet all night. And you'll give me a free shot cuz
I'm going to give you a Cube reading. I'll ask you 4 questions and tell you deep
insights about you and you'll love me for it and give me a free shot." After
cubing her, she gives me a free shot and I move in for a kiss, but she refuses
with the claim that she'll get in trouble for kissing a customer. I decide to
work the room and return to her later in the night.
Frenchman and I sneak into the VIP Lounge area of a private party for a record
company by lying to the bouncer. We joke around with a set of girls, bust their
balls, and write on a notepad to pass funny notes to them Capt_BL style.
However, the bouncer eventually finds out we are not part of the party and we
eject the area, and go to the next club.
12:00 My Midnight Make Out Sessions
There’s a gorgeous blonde girl standing alone near the dance floor. So as soon
as I see her, my natural lion instinct is to grab her and say, "Come with me." I
bring her to the bar and tell her, "Now, I'm going to show you something. You
have a good energy and something special about you so I'm going to show
something that I don't usually show to others." She says, "Yeah. You probably do
this to everyone." So I "bust her balls" and say, "Hey. You’re trying to rip on
what I want to share with you. Fine. You’re not getting any love tonight, baby!"
She smiles and I continue with a rune cast. Then I point to my left cheek and
say, "Give me a kiss." She complies. I then point to my right cheek, and say,
"Give me another." She kisses again. So I point to my lips and say, "Now, give
me a big children’s kiss" and I pull her head to mine and we start making out.
After chatting and joking around, we both get up from the bar and return to our
friends. I see HB Latino Dancer dancing alone so I open her again.
I decide to bring her to the center of the elevated stage and I decide to really
show off to gain social proof in the club. I'm mixing up dance moves between cha
cha, salsa, techno-club dancing, and swing. She’s loving it so I start kissing
her. She stops and says, "I like you." I say, "I like you, too." She replies,
"Really?" and I smile.
She says come with me to the bathroom. I think that we’re going to fuck in the
bathroom, but it’s full of other women and all the stalls are full so I decide
to wait for her outside because she decides that she really need to use the
toilet. I wait outside of the bathroom and talk to Frenchman.
HB Latino Dancer approaches me and Frenchman says that he wants to take a
picture. She says, "Sure!" and grabs me and starts kissing me while Frenchman
takes pictures on his digital camera. She says she is going to meet up with her
friends and leaves me with Frenchman, who asks me if I'm going to fuck her
tonight and I say, "Yeah."
I find HB Latino Dancer with her friends and befriend the group with some jokes,
smiles, and funny negs. All of her friends love me and are making jokes about
how my face is covered with kisses. Her UG friend wants to kiss me too, but I
say that my face is full and point to my neck. She laughs and the bus is about
to takeoff so we board the bus.
1:00 AM Papa Lays HB Latino Dancer
The bus is returning to our original destination, but stops halfway there and I
see HB Latino Dancer getting out of the bus with her friends because they are in
front of their hotel. I run to the front of the bus and yell, "Hey! Where are
you going?" HB Latino Dancer wiggles her finger at me as if to say "Come with
So I jump out of the bus and enter the hotel with HB Latino Dancer and her 3
friends. While going up the elevator, HB Latino Dancer starts acting like a
little schoolgirl and says to her friends, "Look what I'm bringing home tonight!
Look at the gift I've got to bring home tonight! Look at what I'm bringing home
We walk towards her friends’ hotel room and HB Latino Dancer asks if we can
borrow their room. She says we need to drive to San Mateo to go to her house. So
we call a cab, and HB Latino Dancer gets in and says, "I don't know what you’re
expecting, but we are not going to have sex tonight. We can smooch. But if you
are expecting more than that, well, maybe you should get out." I respond with an
innocent smile and say, "That’s cool. That’s cool." So we take a taxi out to San
Mateo to her friend’s house. And then her friend drives us to her apartment.
She’s hungry so she decides to make a midnight snack for us, a Mexican omelet
with lots of hot sauce over it.
We take the food upstairs to her bedroom, which is one large floor with a
bathroom. I look around and all the walls and the ceiling are covered with large
mirrors. She looks at me and says, "I know what you’re thinking, but I bought
the place this way. My friends joke around because they say, ‘I know you and why
you have the mirrors’ (laughs)."
After eating some delicious food in her bed, HB Latino Dancer puts on a lingerie
dress and gets into bed. I start to slip under the covers while she turns off
the lights. She stops me, "You can't go into my bed wearing your clothes.
Undress." I comply and take off all my clothes and hop into bed and she takes
off her dress, but keeps her panties on.
I start kissing her, fondling her large breasts, and am getting very aroused.  I
start fingering her and begin to jab my cock at her pussy. She says, "You can't
fuck me without a condom." I say, "I have a condom." She replies, "Ok (in a
sweet and innocent girlie voice)."
I jump out of bed and can't find a condom so I ask her if she has one and she
says yes. She gives me the condom and takes off her panties. Then I get on top
of her and fuck her. The sex is really good and I want her to cum. So even
though I came, I continue fucking her and ask her to get on top.
She rides me while exclaiming how good my cock feels and how wet she’s getting.
After she says, "I need to stop after I feel so really good." And she asks if I
came all over her cuz we are both really wet. My concern is that the cum leaked
out of the condom while she was riding me like a bronco.
We take a break to chat, drink some cool water, and relax in bed. However, I'm
getting aroused lying against to this beautiful woman’s naked body so I end up
getting hard again. So I ask her for another condom and we continue fucking. We
continue this routine the entire night.
8:00 AM Thanks for Sharing Your Body
After a night full of sweat and fun, HB Latino Dancer drives me back to
Frenchman’s house in San Francisco. The sun is out and the sky is clear with a
rainbow in the background. We arrive at Frenchman’s house and she drops me off
and we hug and say good bye. She smiles and says, "Thank you for sharing your
body with me."


Hypno Bill:
Here is a recent post I made on my list answering a list member's question. My
seduction group can be found at

List member's question: There is a fine line between being a jerk and not
putting up with a woman's bullshit and sometimes I have wandered over into the
'being a jerk' area. I think we can all benefit if you can expand on this for
My Answer:  I have given it a couple of days thought as it is a fine
distinction. Plus it relates to getting ahead in the world ethically.  Stick
with me here and I will tie all this in as to how it relates to seduction.

Ethically seems to be the only way to get ahead in the world on the big end.
Sure there are some unethical people who make a few million. But they don't make
the billions.

The way to be able to get ahead is related to being dominant. Going for what it
is that you want without question. Facing resistance and opposition, creating
your own path.  What is it that is behind the Jerk mentality?  They use harmful
manipulation. That is, either you do what they want or they will hurt you. Or do
what they want and they will stop hurting you.  Jerks dominate by bullying and
using harmful manipulation. Now stop and think, what is the meta message here?
They feel worthless in that no one will want to cooperate with them willingly.
They feel alone and abandoned. They feel they have nothing to lose because deep
inside they feel they have and are nothing. It can often be that sense of
feeling that they are about to be abandoned that can make them over react.

When someone is allowing constant harmful manipulation to themselves they will
be the willing victim of the jerks. Jerks can be women as well as men.  So the
constant victims also have a negative meta message.  META MESSAGES GO BOTH WAYS.

A jerk, when harming someone, will also receive his own harmful meta message.
He is treating people badly. Therefore people have a low value in his mind.  He,
being a person himself, cannot escape this message. He thus reinforces his own
lack of personal value. By virtue of the fact that he has to use harmful
manipulation, his meta message to himself is that he is ineffective. This is
because he cuts himself off from any other possible and more effective solution.
His lack of choice is a huge limitation. Thus he does feel powerless behind the
bullying.  Personally these days when someone blows up at me. I realize that
behind it
all they are telling me that to them I am superior and they feel powerless
compared to me. Naturally in all future meetings I have more power with them.
They can't figure out why.

When someone goes off on you, they are feeling powerless with you. Therefore
they are saying that in some way you have more power than them. Thus they may
also be giving you a clue to be more gentle in your handling of them.  BE
Some people do get off on getting you to blow up. They will intentionally do
things to frustrate and upset you. Their reward is you losing it. Deny them the
reward they seek. Or they will do it more.

YES you read that right, manipulation can be positive. We by our nature cannot
not manipulate. We are born into manipulation. Hungry we cry and mom feeds us.
We need changing we cry and we get changed. We smile and people smile back at
us. From the moment we are born our lives are all about manipulation. Go to the
grocery store and we manipulate the clerk to let us walk right out of the store
with bags of groceries. How do we accomplish that? By giving in exchange the
agreed upon amount of manipulation. In the words of the law it is "quid pro
quo." Something for something, the very heart of contract law. So even our legal
system recognizes and approves of positive manipulation. Our legal system also
recognizes and outlaws harmful manipulation. In contract law if there is an
ambiguity in the contract, the legal definition is the definition of the person
who did not write the contract. Forcing people against their will into a
contract is against the law. Using coercion and threats of extortion are jail
able offenses.  So we have positive manipulation. In which each person gets
something that they want. Getting sex is not so much manipulation as both people
want it.   The key is getting them to want it with you. Here you need to provide
them a benefit. In return they will provide you a benefit. Naturally sex will
happen, it is a normal human desire.


Then, if jerks dominate in a negative way, is there a positive way to dominate?


Remember the key here is that both parties get something out of the deal. And
dominance based upon a sense of personal worth is healthy. The options that
arise from your personal worth gives greater power and connection to the
dominance. Here we also add walk away power. If someone steps out of line. You
always have the option of walking away. Even if it is a temporary removal of
your good will. You send the message that you will not put up with that. And by
not over reacting you are not creating a distance. By removing your good will,
which is a benefit. They are free to choose if they want to continue to receive
the benefit of your good will. How will they regain your good will? They have
options that of course must meet your
decision as to how to regain your good will.


This is why women give us trouble. Because they want a man who is strong and
won't put up with crap. Message is if you will put up with crap from her, how
can you protect her? Get it, being dominated has a benefit for women. So women
test us all the time to see if we are strong.


Thus women gain a major benefit from your DOMINANCE. Key here is she gets to
feel safe and protected. Jerks remove this benefit from the equation. The
control of a jerk comes from hurting them. Having a sense of self worth allows
you to be dominant and loving.

When having sex, women want men to take the attitude "I'm going to do this to
you and you're going to love it." Here we have domination and the women are
getting a major benefit from it. No woman wants a tepid lover.

So how can you gain this ability to dominate and keep it on the plus side?
Realize that women want a strong man and provide that for her.  Build your sense
of self worth. Tell yourself that you are somebody. Make a list of your
accomplishments and read it daily. Give yourself credit for doing things right
and focus on what your strengths.  Understand that at all times there are many
options. Once you begin to think this way, you will be surprised at the new
options that come up in a situation where before all you could do is blow up.
Sometimes just letting the person pick his or her own punishment. They will come
up with something
bigger than you could have ever gotten them to agree to, had you had suggested
it.  Realize that everyone wants to feel accepted. By giving them this they are
going to give you something in return. You make her feel better then she has
ever felt with anyone else. So in return she is up for more adventurous sex, if
that is your pleasure. Or maybe she is willing to blow off her boyfriend and
come spend the night with you. Or if you want, she will say yes if and when you
ask her to marry you. It's all up to you. Also psychological research has
discovered that the man is in charge of whether or not a relationship succeeds
or fails. As men it is our responsibility to make or break the relationship. And
I know how some of you feel reading that last sentence. I used to feel the same
way, totally at a loss as to why a girl broke up with me. I have felt that way
in the past many times. But now I know better. A common reason before was I had
not been dominant enough. For some other guys they played the jerk too much.  So
believe in yourself and be compassionately dominate.


After a year in Japan, I was hooked on Asian women. There is really a lot of
information to cover in my tactics with them,
so I will just hit on some highlights here. But seduction is an art form, as
complex and knowledge-rich as any field of human endeavor. One email alone wont
suffice to tell you what to do. So if you want more details, go to the sites and
posts I mention at the end of this mail.
-I almost always open on Japanese women in English. If they don't speak it well,
then I have the upper hand in leading them. If they are with a friend, I can
also then feign ignorance of the language, and eavesdrop on their opinion of
what I say/do. If they don't speak at all, I switch to Japanese.
-Fashion can be a good aid to you, if you can afford brand name clothes,
Japanese women will be more attracted on average. At the very least, I find that
they really like a man who wears a suit. I, of course, don't wear a suit out to
bars, but it helps when I pick up women during commuting hours in the subways.
-I assume that they prefer me for what I am, a foreigner. This is my "frame". I
even ask them questions to validate that frame, with presuppositions. For
example: "So, what is it that you like about American men better than Japanese
If you are older, you should add to your frame that they will also like you
*because* you are older, not in spite of it. To validate that, just look around
and notice how many Japanese women actually do date older men. If she gives you
resistance about the age difference (or if you can sense that is an issue for
her) then get rapport somehow (eg. say that you also used to think that way)
then work up a pattern/story around how Amuro Namie married that dancer Sam guy
who was so much older than her, and what a great fantasy life they now have...
which leads me to:
-I always indirectly paint myself as her fantasy. I know that many Japanese
women love Hollywood and Disney, so I capitalize on the romantic images
portrayed by these media and shape myself or "suggest" myself into those images.
I ask who her favorite movie star is, then what her ideal man's traits are, then
use her answers to become that subtly and seduce her. Self points, tonality,
kino, anchoring, submodality manipulation, alpha tendencies, underlook, etc. are
all tools I use.
If you are really interested in learning how to do this, understanding the terms
above, etc. it's going to take a lot of effort, reading, and practice. I have
been studying for 2.5 years myself, and still am learning. I suggest reading
thoroughly through our
site and searching the archives (almost 200K posts)
for keywords like Japan, or posts by myself (TPUA or TokyoPUA) or by
Maniac_High, Kipp, Rio, et al. The lay reports are the best posts for learning,
I think. My most recent post about HBSubway describes how I fully seduced a J
girl in Tokyo in under an hour in full detail. Also, from fastseduction, there
are also links to Maniac's page that is full of posts about Japan that will help

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

Success Secrets Our free newsletter reveals it all Money and Personal Finance secrets; Business & Marketing secrets; Health, Fitness, and Weight-Loss advice; Self Defense secrets; Memory Improvement tips; Smart Advice on Flirting, Dating, Sex, and Relationships; Personal Development tips; Communication and Negotiation tips; Tax Secrets & Loopholes! Investment and Stock Market tips; and Much More

The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


[all words] [any words]

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