Subject: Alpha behaviours- heirarchies/states & wingtactics
Date: April 7th, 2003 06:16:00 AM (EDT)Group: alt.seduction.fast.advanced
Author: TylerDurden
Email/Info: <mASF profile>
This article is under strict © copyright rules. For personal use only.
IMPORTANT POST (I write "important", to distinguish these as FUNDAMENTAL, as
opposed to routines or unessential stuff that is just fun):
About a week ago, I showed up at my friend's birthday pub-crawl in a local
Kingston bar.
I arrived late, and searched the bar for my friends. Upon finding them, I
discovered that they were drunk, and basically ignored me, making me feel beta,
thus ruining my state.
The rest of the night I was unable to approach effectively, and my game
basically BROKE DOWN.
WHAT - CAUSED - THIS???
----------
Lowrider recently posted about the difference that he found from one night to
the next.
The first night, his state was ruined by a snub early on. Bad night. Negative
experience.
The following night, he was ON FIRE. Ruled the club. An "ON" night, as Style
(CPowles) would call it.
WHY THE DIFFERENCE??? WHAT CAUSED THIS???
Researchers have found that males' testosterone levels are effected even by
trivial events such as their favourite sports team winning or losing a game.
Our testosterone varies depending on the level of success that we have.
Mystery calls this MOMENTUM.
Our state DRASTICALLY affects our ability to pickup girls. They pickup on it.
THEY PICKUP ON IT.
When I'm in a good state, I can perform at elite levels. On some rare
occassions I've seen my game run even as tight as Mystery's.
I'll feel great, practically invincible. Cocky as ever, I feel like I can
pickup any chick in the club - and I CAN.
I CAN THINK OF ALL THE RIGHT THINGS TO SAY. ROUTINES AND LINES ARE FLOWING
OUT OF MY MOUTH EFFORTLESSLY. I AM FUNNY, SHARP, COCKY, AND ITS ALL EFFORTLESS.
I AM ON.
Other nights, I cannot initiate a chat to save my life. SERIOUSLY, I CANNOT
INITIATE A CHAT. No exaggeration. I'll try, but I'll be snubbed over and over.
Literally, no exaggeration. I get sub-AFC. This happens to me at least one out
of every 5-6 times that I'll go out.
------
So what causes this???
After meeting and talking with many other PUAs in real life, I've been able to
peice together a trend.
It has to do with how ALPHA you feel at the time, and the BIOFEEDBACK that you
get as a result.
This also relates to WING TACTICS, which will be explained more in depth later
in the post.
EXAMPLES:
1) No9 is Mystery's roomate. No9 does not enjoy going out and playing pickup
with Mystery. Similarly, when No9 goes out with Twentysix and I, he'll often
sit there and just watch.
This struck me as strange, because during my MM-Workshop, he was an instructor,
and showed incredible skill.
I asked Twentysix, "dude, why is 9 not sarging lately?".. Twentysix didn't
know.
THEN, when we did the Toronto Workshop, I look over and see No9 BUSTING PHAT
MOVES. He's working it in front of the STUDENTS. He's working the room, PU'ing
chicks left and right. His skill is coming through, and he's on fire.
Top-skilled PUA.
WHY?
2) Twentysix always has new chicks on the go. When he goes out with his normal
wingman, 10magnet, he'll get several #s that turn into get-togethers.
When he went out with RickyRoma and TorontoGuy, he worked the shit - had girls
all over him, etc etc.
But when Twentysix goes out with ME, he doesn't usually get strong results.
He'll get GOOD results, but not NEARLY as close as when he's with weaker
wingmen.
WHY?
3) Usually (not always) when I meet new ASFers, I am in impressive form.
When I meet a new ASFer, I expect them to have almost no skill, and to be
generally impressed with me.
Then I met SUPERSLICKA in Ottawa, and as it turned, he had GAME.
I was surprised, since on the phone I'd kind of treated him like a newbie.
We get to the club, and I find myself kind of talking faster than usual, and
telling him tons of stories about chicks I've gotten with.
I wondered "why am I doing this", but continued on in this fashion.
My night was mediocre.
The next night got WORSE. My game FELL APART. I had difficulty doing
approaches, and initiating chats with anyone in the club.
WHY?
(my results were better than second time we hung out, but that's a whole
'nother post)
4) Papa and I spent 6 weeks travelling together. At first, my game was
significantly stronger, and Papa would generally just watch what I would do,
and try to copy it.
He commented that he was disappointed that I wasn't learning as much from him
as he was from me.
As he picked up on what I was doing, he not only internalized it, but actually
IMPROVED ON IT.
His game became extremely tight, and I began to sort of sit back and watch.
As the week progressed, my game began to FALL APART. I was in very poor form.
Then, one night in Wisconsin Papa gets all drunk with his friends. We're all
out together, and I am free to sarge without watching Paps working the room
better than I am.
I have the first TOP NOTCH night in a long time. I get SOLID meet-closes with
no less than EIGHT girls, have girls CRAWLING on me, get tonguedowns, and have
girls on me all night.
My confidence is restored, and I have MOMENTUM.
The next day we travel to Chicago where I meet Orion and MadDash.
As posted, I have 2 TOP DAYS in a row, including the stripper adventure and the
Smashing Pumpkins adventure. I tonguedown around 15 girls in 2 days, and have
girls lusting and crawling all over me.
Meanwhile, Papa's game FALLS APART.
He is fucking up under the pressure of hoping to impress Orion and MadDash, and
generally does NOTHING of note.
He later comments "I felt like going over to you and asking you to open sets
for me.. I dunno what it was.. I kept thinking 'shit, I need TD in set with
me'.."
This was the guy who had DOMINATED the clubs for the past 3 weeks. Still, he
couldn't take the pressure when my game was on.
WHY?
5) Often my game will be tight as fuck all week. Then, when I go to visit my
PU-tutor, Mystery, my game will be WEAK.
In fact, in all my time with Mystery, I've never shown him my tightest game.
When it comes to PU, Mystery is so alpha that it cannot be conveyed over this
internet chat board. Words cannot describe what the guy can do.
There are guys on the Lounge who have written extensive commentary on strategy
PURELY for "sarging AROUND Mystery".
Mystery is my teacher, and even though we can hang out and bust on eachother
like normal guys, I've never had strong game around him when we're in the club.
Not bad or anything, but never strong.
In fact, the ONLY guy who can wing effectively with Mystery is STYLE. PERIOD.
WHY?
--------------
It's interesting, because when you look back at the case where I showed up at
my drunken friend's party, and I was ignored, my game fell apart.
The days where I've had STRONG game, have often been when I've hit up the
shopping mall, and chatted up the CLERKS who HAVE to chat me as part of their
job. I eventually attract some of them, and feel a strong state.
I then show up at the club EARLY, and chat up the staff.. The momentum from the
mall clerks propels me to succeed with the barstaff, and then I get in an even
better mood.
This momentum then turns into an amazing night, and I have many successful PUs.
Generally, the success of my night is STATE BASED. I do well when I have
MOMENTUM.
------------
WHEN YOUR WING'S GAME BREAKS DOWN - PROCEDURES:
In the past, when my wingman's game had broken down, I'd stop and start running
strategy and criticism on why it has occured. Try to get to the bottom of it,
etc etc.
This has NEVER been helpful, and has always just made things WORSE. It never
got good results.
What I've figured out now, is that GIVING ADVICE is OUT-ALPHAING your wingman.
By taking your advice, your wingman is BETA-ing himself.
Doing this in PICKUP is CATEGORICALLY DIFFERENT than in tasks such as academic
work, because ALPHA STATE will DICTATE RESULTS.
In academic work, for example, you can take advice from someone, and it will
improve your final draft.
However, during pickup, as you take advice, you feel beta-ed, and your results
become WORSE and WORSE.
Again - taking advice during ANY other activity is EFFECTIVE, because the
advice is HELPFUL.
Because the MERE ACT OF TAKING ADVICE makes you feel beta, it is UNHELPFUL.
Therefore you must always AVOID giving advice to your wingman IN FIELD, and
SAVE it for a post-game DEBRIEF.
It is my opinion that STRATEGY SHOULD NOT BE DISCUSSED WHILE IN THE MIDST OF
PLAYING THE GAME, and should be saved for a post game debrief.
THE SOLUTION:
When your wingman's game breaks down, the KEY is to AVOID talking about pickup.
Realize that the SMALL AMOUNT of strategy that you can discuss will NOT change
your wingman's game enough in such a short period of time to effect substantial
change in his game.
The SOLUTION is to TAKE A BREATHER, and just go play pool or go outside for a
bite to eat or something.
JOKE AROUND.
Do NOT address that his night is going poorly. AVOID it.
If he asks why, just say "dude, you're MONEY.. those chicks were defective
anti-social.. do you wanna go find some NORMAL SOCIABLE CHICKS?" and then let
HIM direct you back in.
LET YOUR WINGMAN TAKE CHARGE of the situation, so that he can RETURN to
alpha-state.
Do NOT start offering advice, or you will BETA his state.
Do NOT tell him about all the chicks you are picking up.
Just joke around, and put him into a situation that will BOOST his state /
elevate his testosterone / whatever.
**Get him to TAKE CHARGE in a way that is SUBTLE, so he doesn't know that you
are deliberately patronizing him.
If you can prod him to do something that makes him feel alpha, he will return
to alpha-state, and again become a helpful and effective wingman.
This is important of course, for 2sets and just because in general, your
wingman should be social-proofing you. An ideal pair of wingmen don't cockfarm
eachother out. They BENEFIT and SOCIAL PROOF eachother, because they are BOTH
cool guys.
A tactic that helps with this is:
ACCOMPLISHMENT INTRODUCTIONS:
When my wingman comes in, I give him the BEST introduction possible.
"Guys guys! This is Twentysix! This is the COOLEST MUTHAFUCKA on the ENTIRE
PLANET.. If you talk to this guy for even 30 seconds, you will clearly see that
he is the coolest fucking guy"
Then update him on what you've been chatting the chicks about, so he can throw
in his 2c.
This also sets the frame that you are more into your wing than the chicks.
"Bros before hoes" mentality. Makes you seem cooler and thus more attractive
to the set.
----------
Alpha heirarchy bullshit will dictate whether or not you pull the FINEST girls
on any given night.
Take for example the parties that I'll attend. On nights when I am the coolest
guy in the room, I have FULL ATTENTION, and I am the ANCHOUR of the
conversations. (as discussed in the post below this one).
On such a night, I WILL pull the hottest girls, or at very least have all of
the attention and IOIs.
However, if a cooler/more alpha guy shows up, I will NOT have good results.
I'll probably go home with nothing, or scraps.
--------
More on wingman tactics:
I've noticed that when I have a newbie with me, I'll usually TAKE CHARGE.
I am the man. I go into sets WITHOUT THINKING. I AM ALPHA.
However, when I have an equally skilled PUA with me, I sometimes think more
about results. I think too much. Will I get snubbed? Will this work? etc etc...
With a new guy, I don't have TIME to think about this stuff. I have to TAKE
CHARGE of the situation.
I feel ALPHA, and chicks PICKUP on it. I have an excellent night.
-------------
OK, that's all I can think of on this topic. Alot of disorganized blather.
Hopefully people will derive usefulness out of it, and results.
-TD
opposed to routines or unessential stuff that is just fun):
About a week ago, I showed up at my friend's birthday pub-crawl in a local
Kingston bar.
I arrived late, and searched the bar for my friends. Upon finding them, I
discovered that they were drunk, and basically ignored me, making me feel beta,
thus ruining my state.
The rest of the night I was unable to approach effectively, and my game
basically BROKE DOWN.
WHAT - CAUSED - THIS???
----------
Lowrider recently posted about the difference that he found from one night to
the next.
The first night, his state was ruined by a snub early on. Bad night. Negative
experience.
The following night, he was ON FIRE. Ruled the club. An "ON" night, as Style
(CPowles) would call it.
WHY THE DIFFERENCE??? WHAT CAUSED THIS???
Researchers have found that males' testosterone levels are effected even by
trivial events such as their favourite sports team winning or losing a game.
Our testosterone varies depending on the level of success that we have.
Mystery calls this MOMENTUM.
Our state DRASTICALLY affects our ability to pickup girls. They pickup on it.
THEY PICKUP ON IT.
When I'm in a good state, I can perform at elite levels. On some rare
occassions I've seen my game run even as tight as Mystery's.
I'll feel great, practically invincible. Cocky as ever, I feel like I can
pickup any chick in the club - and I CAN.
I CAN THINK OF ALL THE RIGHT THINGS TO SAY. ROUTINES AND LINES ARE FLOWING
OUT OF MY MOUTH EFFORTLESSLY. I AM FUNNY, SHARP, COCKY, AND ITS ALL EFFORTLESS.
I AM ON.
Other nights, I cannot initiate a chat to save my life. SERIOUSLY, I CANNOT
INITIATE A CHAT. No exaggeration. I'll try, but I'll be snubbed over and over.
Literally, no exaggeration. I get sub-AFC. This happens to me at least one out
of every 5-6 times that I'll go out.
------
So what causes this???
After meeting and talking with many other PUAs in real life, I've been able to
peice together a trend.
It has to do with how ALPHA you feel at the time, and the BIOFEEDBACK that you
get as a result.
This also relates to WING TACTICS, which will be explained more in depth later
in the post.
EXAMPLES:
1) No9 is Mystery's roomate. No9 does not enjoy going out and playing pickup
with Mystery. Similarly, when No9 goes out with Twentysix and I, he'll often
sit there and just watch.
This struck me as strange, because during my MM-Workshop, he was an instructor,
and showed incredible skill.
I asked Twentysix, "dude, why is 9 not sarging lately?".. Twentysix didn't
know.
THEN, when we did the Toronto Workshop, I look over and see No9 BUSTING PHAT
MOVES. He's working it in front of the STUDENTS. He's working the room, PU'ing
chicks left and right. His skill is coming through, and he's on fire.
Top-skilled PUA.
WHY?
2) Twentysix always has new chicks on the go. When he goes out with his normal
wingman, 10magnet, he'll get several #s that turn into get-togethers.
When he went out with RickyRoma and TorontoGuy, he worked the shit - had girls
all over him, etc etc.
But when Twentysix goes out with ME, he doesn't usually get strong results.
He'll get GOOD results, but not NEARLY as close as when he's with weaker
wingmen.
WHY?
3) Usually (not always) when I meet new ASFers, I am in impressive form.
When I meet a new ASFer, I expect them to have almost no skill, and to be
generally impressed with me.
Then I met SUPERSLICKA in Ottawa, and as it turned, he had GAME.
I was surprised, since on the phone I'd kind of treated him like a newbie.
We get to the club, and I find myself kind of talking faster than usual, and
telling him tons of stories about chicks I've gotten with.
I wondered "why am I doing this", but continued on in this fashion.
My night was mediocre.
The next night got WORSE. My game FELL APART. I had difficulty doing
approaches, and initiating chats with anyone in the club.
WHY?
(my results were better than second time we hung out, but that's a whole
'nother post)
4) Papa and I spent 6 weeks travelling together. At first, my game was
significantly stronger, and Papa would generally just watch what I would do,
and try to copy it.
He commented that he was disappointed that I wasn't learning as much from him
as he was from me.
As he picked up on what I was doing, he not only internalized it, but actually
IMPROVED ON IT.
His game became extremely tight, and I began to sort of sit back and watch.
As the week progressed, my game began to FALL APART. I was in very poor form.
Then, one night in Wisconsin Papa gets all drunk with his friends. We're all
out together, and I am free to sarge without watching Paps working the room
better than I am.
I have the first TOP NOTCH night in a long time. I get SOLID meet-closes with
no less than EIGHT girls, have girls CRAWLING on me, get tonguedowns, and have
girls on me all night.
My confidence is restored, and I have MOMENTUM.
The next day we travel to Chicago where I meet Orion and MadDash.
As posted, I have 2 TOP DAYS in a row, including the stripper adventure and the
Smashing Pumpkins adventure. I tonguedown around 15 girls in 2 days, and have
girls lusting and crawling all over me.
Meanwhile, Papa's game FALLS APART.
He is fucking up under the pressure of hoping to impress Orion and MadDash, and
generally does NOTHING of note.
He later comments "I felt like going over to you and asking you to open sets
for me.. I dunno what it was.. I kept thinking 'shit, I need TD in set with
me'.."
This was the guy who had DOMINATED the clubs for the past 3 weeks. Still, he
couldn't take the pressure when my game was on.
WHY?
5) Often my game will be tight as fuck all week. Then, when I go to visit my
PU-tutor, Mystery, my game will be WEAK.
In fact, in all my time with Mystery, I've never shown him my tightest game.
When it comes to PU, Mystery is so alpha that it cannot be conveyed over this
internet chat board. Words cannot describe what the guy can do.
There are guys on the Lounge who have written extensive commentary on strategy
PURELY for "sarging AROUND Mystery".
Mystery is my teacher, and even though we can hang out and bust on eachother
like normal guys, I've never had strong game around him when we're in the club.
Not bad or anything, but never strong.
In fact, the ONLY guy who can wing effectively with Mystery is STYLE. PERIOD.
WHY?
--------------
It's interesting, because when you look back at the case where I showed up at
my drunken friend's party, and I was ignored, my game fell apart.
The days where I've had STRONG game, have often been when I've hit up the
shopping mall, and chatted up the CLERKS who HAVE to chat me as part of their
job. I eventually attract some of them, and feel a strong state.
I then show up at the club EARLY, and chat up the staff.. The momentum from the
mall clerks propels me to succeed with the barstaff, and then I get in an even
better mood.
This momentum then turns into an amazing night, and I have many successful PUs.
Generally, the success of my night is STATE BASED. I do well when I have
MOMENTUM.
------------
WHEN YOUR WING'S GAME BREAKS DOWN - PROCEDURES:
In the past, when my wingman's game had broken down, I'd stop and start running
strategy and criticism on why it has occured. Try to get to the bottom of it,
etc etc.
This has NEVER been helpful, and has always just made things WORSE. It never
got good results.
What I've figured out now, is that GIVING ADVICE is OUT-ALPHAING your wingman.
By taking your advice, your wingman is BETA-ing himself.
Doing this in PICKUP is CATEGORICALLY DIFFERENT than in tasks such as academic
work, because ALPHA STATE will DICTATE RESULTS.
In academic work, for example, you can take advice from someone, and it will
improve your final draft.
However, during pickup, as you take advice, you feel beta-ed, and your results
become WORSE and WORSE.
Again - taking advice during ANY other activity is EFFECTIVE, because the
advice is HELPFUL.
Because the MERE ACT OF TAKING ADVICE makes you feel beta, it is UNHELPFUL.
Therefore you must always AVOID giving advice to your wingman IN FIELD, and
SAVE it for a post-game DEBRIEF.
It is my opinion that STRATEGY SHOULD NOT BE DISCUSSED WHILE IN THE MIDST OF
PLAYING THE GAME, and should be saved for a post game debrief.
THE SOLUTION:
When your wingman's game breaks down, the KEY is to AVOID talking about pickup.
Realize that the SMALL AMOUNT of strategy that you can discuss will NOT change
your wingman's game enough in such a short period of time to effect substantial
change in his game.
The SOLUTION is to TAKE A BREATHER, and just go play pool or go outside for a
bite to eat or something.
JOKE AROUND.
Do NOT address that his night is going poorly. AVOID it.
If he asks why, just say "dude, you're MONEY.. those chicks were defective
anti-social.. do you wanna go find some NORMAL SOCIABLE CHICKS?" and then let
HIM direct you back in.
LET YOUR WINGMAN TAKE CHARGE of the situation, so that he can RETURN to
alpha-state.
Do NOT start offering advice, or you will BETA his state.
Do NOT tell him about all the chicks you are picking up.
Just joke around, and put him into a situation that will BOOST his state /
elevate his testosterone / whatever.
**Get him to TAKE CHARGE in a way that is SUBTLE, so he doesn't know that you
are deliberately patronizing him.
If you can prod him to do something that makes him feel alpha, he will return
to alpha-state, and again become a helpful and effective wingman.
This is important of course, for 2sets and just because in general, your
wingman should be social-proofing you. An ideal pair of wingmen don't cockfarm
eachother out. They BENEFIT and SOCIAL PROOF eachother, because they are BOTH
cool guys.
A tactic that helps with this is:
ACCOMPLISHMENT INTRODUCTIONS:
When my wingman comes in, I give him the BEST introduction possible.
"Guys guys! This is Twentysix! This is the COOLEST MUTHAFUCKA on the ENTIRE
PLANET.. If you talk to this guy for even 30 seconds, you will clearly see that
he is the coolest fucking guy"
Then update him on what you've been chatting the chicks about, so he can throw
in his 2c.
This also sets the frame that you are more into your wing than the chicks.
"Bros before hoes" mentality. Makes you seem cooler and thus more attractive
to the set.
----------
Alpha heirarchy bullshit will dictate whether or not you pull the FINEST girls
on any given night.
Take for example the parties that I'll attend. On nights when I am the coolest
guy in the room, I have FULL ATTENTION, and I am the ANCHOUR of the
conversations. (as discussed in the post below this one).
On such a night, I WILL pull the hottest girls, or at very least have all of
the attention and IOIs.
However, if a cooler/more alpha guy shows up, I will NOT have good results.
I'll probably go home with nothing, or scraps.
--------
More on wingman tactics:
I've noticed that when I have a newbie with me, I'll usually TAKE CHARGE.
I am the man. I go into sets WITHOUT THINKING. I AM ALPHA.
However, when I have an equally skilled PUA with me, I sometimes think more
about results. I think too much. Will I get snubbed? Will this work? etc etc...
With a new guy, I don't have TIME to think about this stuff. I have to TAKE
CHARGE of the situation.
I feel ALPHA, and chicks PICKUP on it. I have an excellent night.
-------------
OK, that's all I can think of on this topic. Alot of disorganized blather.
Hopefully people will derive usefulness out of it, and results.
-TD
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