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PUA is the new AFC: Why ASF is wrong

mASF post by zarathustra_fi

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PUA is the new AFC: Why ASF is wrong
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mASF post by "zarathustra_fi"
posted on: mASF forum: Advanced Discussion, April 4, 2005

On 4/2/05 9:33:00 PM, imperfect wrote:

There is a difference between playing the piano and being a pianist.

Anyone can play the piano at a certain extent.

But being a PIANIST means to be DAMN GOOD in playing the piano.

The guys in ASF are artists or aspiring to become such so what they want is to
become PIANISTS and not only "learn to play the piano somehow".

To become a PIANIST you first need to repeat the same exercises every day for
hours until you DROP DEAD for the tiredness but one day.. one day you will sit
at the piano and will have 1000 persons to look at you like a God..

Then you are A PIANIST! Same thing with Seduction. Everyone can put his dick
into a pussy but not everyone can be a Seductionist.

Online Seduction School for Single Men, Husbands & Players

"Sarge Est Necesse, Vivere Necesse Non Est " Gnaeus Pompeius, revised
>-The problem with ASF-
>I’m sure that ASF has helped
>some people, some of us more
>than others, but overall ASF
>is not the answer. ASF is not
>an end all solution to your
>problems, and although it
>does, somewhat, lead you in
>the right way, it most
>definitely also leads you in
>the wrong way as well. It
>actually hurts your chances of
>getting laid past a certain
>point, and now I’m going to
>tell you exactly why.
>Let’s say that someone is
>unhappy with their body. So
>they find a website on
>bodybuilding that recommends
>lifting weights for two hours
>a day seven days a week,
>eating three solid meals a day
>and doing five hundred
>crunches before going to bed.
>So this person, not knowing
>any better, follows this
>advice to a T. And, over
>time, they will indefinitely
>get some results. They will
>lose some fat and will gain
>some muscle. But for those of
>you who know about lifting
>weights, you immediately
>recognized that this is over
>training, and definitely not
>the BEST or anywhere close to
>the best way to lose fat and
>gain muscle. If instead they
>learned about training
>properly and finding a diet
>appropriate for them, they
>could easily double or even
>triple their gains in a short
>amount of time.
>Okay, let’s use another
>example in case you don’t know
>much about bodybuilding.
>Let’s say that you’re
>overweight and want to cut
>some fat for this summer. So
>you take up running, but
>instead of just running a
>healthy amount, you run ten
>hours a day. And then you
>decide to start eating
>healthy, but instead of eating
>a balanced diet, you go down
>to two tiny meals a day. So
>yeah, you’re gonna end up
>skinny, but you also are
>deprived of nutrients, you
>feel tired all the time, you
>look anorexic, and your body
>burns all of your muscle
>because you don’t eat enough
>What I’m getting at here is
>that’s what ASF does in short.
>It causes you to take action
>and not act like a total nerd
>or wimp, but it also can turn
>you into a weird,
>uncomfortable try-hard.
>If you take some action you
>will get some result, which is
>why ASF is in a way helpful,
>but what if in the long run it
>ends up messing you up? Wanna
>know how to fix it?
>-The types of people who come
>to ASF-
>I think a lot of this comes
>from the fact that there are
>many different type of people
>who find ASF. There is one
>group, who is totally lost,
>and they have no concept of
>what makes people like each
>other, they are probably
>virgins, and if they ever had
>girls who liked them, chances
>are the girls were just as
>weird as them. These type of
>people spend most of their
>time at their houses and have
>either no friends or just a
>few who act like them. Their
>hobbies are video games, TV,
>the internet and not much
>else. They find their
>identity by relating to other
>people like them, spending
>their time playing video games
>or watching TV shows, and
>prefer planned out structure
>for everything. They are very
>uncomfortable in social
>situations and can’t hold a
>conversation with a stranger
>in most instances.
>The second type of people are
>pretty normal, most likely not
>virgins, have always had a
>decent amount of friends, and
>would take hanging out with
>friends or playing a sport
>over a video game any day. If
>they aren’t having success
>with women, it’s probably
>because they are not around
>women or they are not trying
>to be social with women. As
>soon as they start talking to
>girls and asking for their
>numbers, they’re going to see
>instant success.
>Now here is where the biggest
>problem happens: first many of
>the ideas that people consider
>“the rules” were founded by
>the first type of person (the
>nerd). Second, the two types
>of people are trying to give
>each other advice. When in
>reality, the first type of
>people (the nerd), their only
>goal should be to become like
>the second type of person (the
>cool guy) and THEN worrying
>about other things.
>If someone asked me to help
>them become better with women,
>I’d use my common sense to
>help them. I’d have them
>start lifting weights with me,
>I’d make them stop playing
>video games if they did, I’d
>make them join a sport, I’d
>have them buy new clothes, and
>then I’d tell them to go out
>and be social and act normal
>around girls. And this advice
>makes perfect sense to me, and
>it also makes sense to the
>second type of guys.
>However, let’s say that
>instead someone asks a type
>one person for help with
>women. So the type one person
>says, “Okay I want you to
>first read these three
>archives, then I want you to
>take some notes while watching
>these seduction videos. Okay,
>after that you need to come up
>with a 20 minutes stack of
>routines and an opener you’re
>comfortable with. Okay, now
>go over this checklist and
>memorize some routines for how
>to kiss a girl. Got it? K,
>good luck.” And to the type
>one person, this makes sense.
>For a while I couldn’t
>understand this; to me when I
>saw a post saying “Just be
>confident, if you assume the
>girl likes you then going for
>rapport early is fine as long
>as it isn’t needy” I didn’t
>get why other guys would flame
>the poster.
>I’d see threads like “I like
>this girl at my school, what
>should I do?” or “A girl gave
>me a compliment, how should I
>respond to this in the
>future?” or “What is a good CF
>reply when girls laugh at me
>when I tell them they can’t
>have me? Because I’m
>considering using this line,
>but I’m worried that it will
>come off uncalibrated!”. And
>I am just like, are these guys
>fucking serious? What the
>hell are these guys problems,
>why can’t they just be normal?
>And I’m sure the same thing
>happens when a guy who is the
>second type writes out a paper
>and the post gets flamed by
>about fifteen other guys.
>Like someone will post, “Guys
>this stuff isn’t rocket
>science. Just go up to girls
>and introduce yourself, buy
>some clothes from Hollister
>and The Buckle, start lifting
>weights, and be confident.”
>Then in the next five minutes
>you’ll see about a dozen
>replies saying, “I’m so sick
>of inner game» this, inner game»
>that. We need structure.
>Post up some openers or
>something!” or other guys
>saying, “Man this “ride the
>vibe” stuff is gay, we need
>details!”, or “Easy for you to
>say. But I’m a type 2-left
>sided brain, analytical,
>logical thinker, I need some
>structure bro, some
>structure!”. The reason isn’t
>because it’s bad advice, it’s
>because the first type of
>person cannot understand this
>advice. Their “be normal” is
>stay at home and play dungeons
>and dragons, so when you tell
>type one guys to be normal
>girls still don’t like them,
>when you tell type two guys to
>be normal girls love them.
>For us type two guys, the best
>advice you can give us is act
>normal and be social, and this
>is what gets us laid and has
>gotten us my lays in the past.
>I’m not totally
>anti-specifics, and I do think
>that “TD’s 25 points” is good
>in that it will quickly fix a
>few problems, but the way some
>of you guys take it is so off
>it’s ridiculous. Like 25
>points, I read that and
>realized that I do a couple of
>those things, and after fixing
>them noticed that my jokes got
>more laughs. If you carry
>this list around with you or
>are always looking to correct
>this in other people, then you
>are taking it too far.
>-ASF fucks with your head-
>The other problem is ASF will
>try to make guys who are
>already cool guys (type two)
>think that they are nerds
>(type one) and NEED structure,
>and that it’s okay for you to
>be a nerd.
>Like when TD or Mystery posts
>“Deep down I am a nerd, which
>is why I need all this
>structure and complex theory”,
>some guys relate to that.
>They don’t realize that
>overcomplicating things hurts
>them, even if the theory is
>That’s why from time to time
>you’ll see a post like, “Help!
>I’ve always been good with
>girls and I’m pretty good
>looking, but since I read ASF
>I’ve been going out four
>nights a week and hardly even
>get numbers. What’s wrong,
>should I add more routines?
>Do I need better
>This was (to a small extent)
>me for a while, I would go out
>and sarge and not get shit
>done (explained why later), or
>just would stay home for 3-4
>days, and I would start
>thinking “Oh shit I need to
>fix this!” and start looking
>for routines or write down a
>long two page report on my
>word document. Then a few
>days later I’d go out with
>some people I met at my school
>and make out with a girl at
>the movies or meet some new
>girls or whatever, and when I
>got home that night I’d read
>the word document and couldn’t
>help but laugh at myself.
>The reason behind this is that
>the guys who people look for
>all their ideas from are
>socially retarded nerds. They
>need long routines and
>gimmicks because they have no
>idea what a normal
>conversation with a girl looks
>like. They need to be told to
>do SOMETHING if the girl isn’t
>putting out because they’ve
>never had sex with a girl
>before, so for them the idea
>that they have “ASD blasters”
>helps them, but for guys like
>me who have been with a decent
>number of girls before ASF, it
>just creates all these little
>imaginary problems in our head
>that we, in reality, shouldn’t
>even have to deal with.
>Now I’m sure that some guys
>are going to be thinking, “But
>wait I’ve had these problems.
>When I sarged before and I
>didn’t have alpha BL I’d get
>blown out, and when I did get
>girls to my room they got ASD,
>so how can you say this?”. My
>answer to this is if you
>believe something is true and
>that it will come up, then it
>will. If you believe that you
>have to learn to do back flips
>in order for a girl to want to
>talk to you, then guess what,
>you’re right. It’s going to
>cause you to lose confidence
>and act weird, so that’s why
>you have these problems. If
>you believe that girls already
>like you and all you have to
>do is go up and have a normal
>conversation with them and
>then ask for their number,
>then guess what, you’re right
>Have you ever been watching TV
>with some friends, and you’re
>trying to get your DVD player
>to work so you keep unhooking
>shit and rewiring it and
>messing with the menu but you
>can’t seem to get it. Then
>your friend comes up and just
>changes the TV to channel 3
>and poof your movie is
>playing? That’s what ASF is
>like. What you have to do to
>get a girl’s number is very
>basic, but if in your head you
>have to flip all these
>switches, adjust all these
>knobs, shift through fifty
>phases, run sixteen routines,
>and dance on your head, then
>chances are you aren’t going
>to get very many numbers.
>-Confusing cause and effect-
>What happens when you go out
>four nights a week, three
>hours a day, to clubs hitting
>on drunk girls every single
>week? The answer, eventually
>you will get laid. I don’t
>care if you have a seven hour
>routine sequence, a natural
>style, or if you just go up to
>girls and ask them if they
>prefer paper or plastic when
>they shop for groceries,
>eventually some girl is gonna
>think “wow my friends don’t
>hate this guy, he’s kind of
>cute and I’m kind of drunk!”
>and your dick is gonna slip in
>her. You don’t need six
>archives and a DVD series to
>tell you that, and being able
>to do this doesn’t make you a
>guru either.
>Now the problem comes when
>guys go out and just keep
>trying all this “CF, open, ask
>them if I look gay, adopt
>them, etc” type stuff. In
>moderation a lot of this stuff
>is good, and the overall
>attitude encouraged (don’t
>supplicate, be funny, assume
>they like you) when not taken
>to the extreme is very
>helpful, but when you take
>this stuff to the extreme and
>then get laid and credit
>getting laid to taking this to
>the extreme, we got a problem.
>In simpler terms, a lot of
>guys go out and get laid
>simply by going out and acting
>normal, but because they used
>an opinion opener at one
>point, they credit their lay
>to “RSD method”, whatever that
>means. So then other guys
>read that and think that just
>going out and acting normal
>isn’t enough, so they stress
>out and try to learn “RSD
>In other words, I like some of
>the stuff on ASF. Don’t
>supplicate, wear cool clothes,
>find a way to approach girls
>that doesn’t make anyone
>uncomfortable, etc. All
>helpful. It’s when guys
>convince themselves that they
>have to play by all these made
>up rules that they become
>total tools around women. And
>then when they finally do get
>laid, even though them getting
>laid wasn’t because of some
>routines or opener, they
>credit their success to “I
>used a lot of push-pull and
>dominated the frame” and post
>about in ASF. No, the reason
>you got laid is you were
>persistent, didn’t make anyone
>uncomfortable, acted normal,
>and was social around girls.
>YOU got yourself laid, not
>I find it so ridiculous when I
>read some of the stuff that
>gets posted here. Guys
>posting stuff like, “Well now
>that I’ve ran 1000 sets, I can
>just go up to girls and say hi
>because they sense my PUA
>vibe/aura, but you guys need
>to concentrate on opinion
>openers!”. Once again, I’m
>thinking “is this guy
>serious?”. Just because it
>took you 1000 sets to realize
>that normal conversation with
>girls is all you need doesn’t
>mean everyone else will take
>that much time to realize the
>same thing.
>If you get laid, it’s because
>you acted normal, were social
>around girls while being at
>least a little bit confident,
>were persistent enough, and
>didn’t make anyone
>uncomfortable. It wasn’t
>because of your projection,
>routine stack, CF comment,
>frame domination, or whatever.
>KISS – keep it simple, stupid.
>-Get rid off all the bullshit
>that is hurting you-
>I remember reading a post by
>TD, and it was by far the best
>advice I have ever seen on
>ASF. If you haven’t read it
>yet, write it down and read it
>as soon as you finish with
>this post, it’s called: “wear
>cool clothes and act normal”
>by “TylerDurden”. Even in
>this post I think he tries to
>force too much structure,
>where less thinking would be
>helpful, but overall it’s on
>In it, he says:
>“Your delivery? Scrap it.
>Body language? Scrap it.
>Voice tonality? Scrap it.
>Act normal.”
>This is exactly what I’m
>talking about. You think that
>you need all this “super key
>money” stuff to your game when
>really it’s just bullshit and
>ends up messing you up. You
>start worrying about
>“dominating the frame”,
>“projecting”, “your delivery”,
>“calibrating your
>subcommunication” and all this
>other BULLSHIT and it turns
>you into a weird, unconfident
>tool who is no longer capable
>of a normal interaction with
>the opposite sex.
>Do you even know what half of
>this means? “Dominating the
>frame”? “Project and
>deliver”??? What does that
>mean? Is there any clear
>definition you guys even agree
>on, because if so, I can’t
>find it. Your delivery? What
>is this? Your calibration?
>Why is it that when someone
>posts shit about this everyone
>replies “great post man!”, but
>when someone posts “be normal
>and confident”, which is what
>“dominate the frame” really
>means when it comes down to
>it, they get flamed?
>Right now get rid off all this
>shit. I can sympathize here
>because I used to think about
>women a lot because of ASF,
>until I realized that all of
>this PUA stuff is just another
>form of supplicating. Guess
>what, complimenting a girl to
>getting her to like you is
>lame. So is constantly being
>an asshole to make girls like
>you. Neither one really works
>better, if being an asshole
>gets you more results it’s
>because a) you do it more on
>more girls, and b) are more
>confident doing it because you
>believe it will work. Either
>way you’re being a tool
>because you are going out
>trying to MAKE people like
>you. If you’d just go out and
>have fun and be social, you
>wouldn’t have to even think
>about it.
>Now it also occurred to me
>that some guys just can’t
>comprehend “act normal and be
>social”. Like I listed
>earlier, for me be social and
>act normal gets girls to like
>me. For other guys, it
>doesn’t even register with
>them. So if you are a type
>one guy, how do you become a
>type two guy?
>First let me make this clear:
>how cool you guys think people
>who get laid are is blown way
>out of proportion. I hate
>reading stuff about how these
>RSD guys have “such money
>delivery, they will shatter
>your reality and suck you into
>their dominated frame”, or how
>people worship naturals and
>try to brag about having
>friends who are naturals.
>Give me a fucking break. Hey,
>if they are ex-nerds getting
>laid, props to them. But I’m
>going to tell you right now
>that they blow this stuff way
>out of proportion. Have to
>join a secret society to get
>laid? Bullshit. Getting laid
>without “solid game” is a
>“fool’s mate”? Bullshit.
>How entertaining or cool do
>you have to be to get girls to
>talk to you? The answer is
>not very much.
>How much does a girl have to
>be attracted to you to want to
>hang out with you? Once
>again, probably a lot less
>than you think.
>Now here is what you need to
>- If in college, join a frat.
>- If in high school, join a
>popular sport (baseball,
>basketball, or football, not
>golf or some lame sport that
>doesn’t get you invited to
>- If out of high school, take
>up basketball (YMCA,
>membership is cheap) or boxing
>(boxing gyms are also pretty
>cheap to join), not karate,
>most karate people are 40 year
>old computer nerds.
>- Start lifting weights
>( and then sign
>up for max-ot, great
>- Wear cool clothes (start off
>at Hollister, Abercrombie and
>Fitch, and The Buckle and just
>have someone who already has
>some sense of style go shop
>with you until you develop
>your own sense of style)
>- Stop trying to fix your
>delivery, tonality, or frame
>control. In fact, stop
>thinking about this stuff
>- Stop hanging out with nerds.
>- If you own any video games,
>throw them all away. Not tone
>down how much you play, not
>stop tomorrow, not stop next
>week, throw them out now.
>- Hang out with guys who are
>already good with women. They
>don’t want to hang out with
>you? Then find something you
>have in common with them.
>Talk about sports, join
>sports, talk about cars, talk
>about movies, just don’t talk
>about video games or how you
>washed your mom’s hair last
>Friday night for fun.
>- Stop trying to pick up and
>make people like you, just go
>out and be social.
>- Stop trying to plan out how
>to have a conversation, just
>jump right in there.
>- Don’t spend more than an
>hour a day max in front of
>your TV or computer (combined,
>not an hour each).
>- Take care of the basic stuff
>look-wise, meaning: go
>tanning, take care of your
>skin, get a good smelling
>cologne, get a good haircut,
>- When considering what will
>help you, use your common
>sense. Although ASF will tell
>you that KJing will help you,
>common sense tells you that
>it’s almost always not helpful
>and to just go out and join a
>club or something.
>- Go to places where it’s
>practical to meet new people.
>If religion is your thing,
>think church. If it’s sports,
>think YMCA or sports bars. If
>it’s acting, think community
>theater. COMMON SENSE.
>- Act normal. Act normal. No
>more ASF. Only acting normal!
>- Think less, act more!
>-In conclusion-
>Okay, well this half guide
>half complaint turned out
>longer then I expected. It’s
>pretty ironic, I wanted to
>write a post about how ASF
>overcomplicated things and it
>came out 6 pages on word
>document! Hopefully though it
>will manage to get through to
>at least some of you.
>But who knows, maybe you
>really are about to hit
>another epiphany, maybe a
>breakthrough is just one
>archive away, maybe your next
>lay is just a routine and a CF
>comment from you. Either way,
>best of luck.
>(ben2004 on mirc)
>(spreadtheplague on aim)

Unless otherwise noted, this article is Copyright©2005 by "zarathustra_fi" with implicit permission provided to for reproduction. Any other use is prohibited without the explicit permission of the original author.


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