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Re: Openers

mASF post by Mugen

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Re: Openers
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mASF post by "Mugen"
posted on: mASF forum: General Discussion newsgroup, May 5, 2005

>“You think for some reason that I
>haven’t tried canned shit and scripts. I
>have. I have even wrote my own. And I’ve
>read the book the sexual key on which
>all this shit is based on. I know NLP
>works if it’s applied properly.”

First of all, NLP and canned openers are not the same thing. They are 2
totally different disciplines.

I'm trying to use the already established vocabulary so that folks reading
this, can follow. I'm not mistaking NLP and Canned openers, direct and
indirect, scripts and routines. All of these words already have a shared
meaning in this community. Either you know what the words mean, or you do not.
Do not try and smoke screen the argument by attributing one thing with another

I just want to take an aside, I'm not trying to disrespect you in anyway. I'm
steady studying pretty much every word you drop, cause it sounds like my style
more so than what I typically read. You run game like my people's at the
barbershop. So what you're saying to me, i've already heard a lot, just not as
much detail. Coming up, I heard nuff talk about the player's ball @ my

What I'm trying to do is bring out the real differences with your system, and
the current mASF system.

{snip the leave a note opener}

>Now if your going to make a statement
>such as :
>“Actually I read your post several
>I've read all of your mASF posts.
>I've read all the sosuave posts you've

I have.

To me, leaving a note for a girl is not the same thing as walking up to a girl
and delivering a canned script.

Maybe i'm just dense, but I really don't see the similarities.

Perhaps if you drew them out for me in this format or by sending me an e=mail,
it would be easier for me to understand. But at this point and time, leaving a
personalized note for a 17 year old girl to me, is not the same thing as
walking up to a stranger and asking her "who lies more"


I understand your criticism. It's better to go natural than use scripts,
because by going natural you develop your senses and your improvisation skills.
Ultimately that will get you more and better quality females.

If that's not your criticism, state it plainer than I already have.

My response to your critique, i've already offered, and i don't want to waste
your time.

>That actually isn’t true. Above Icewind
>stated that he believes canned is good
>for beginner but when you get to the
>advanced level you should get away from

Well who are we talking about, advanced level folks, or beginners?

I was pretty sure we were talking about beginners.
I know I was talking about beginners, and I wasn't talking about advanced
players relying on canned scripts.

>As I thought you don’t know why? That’s
>cool kid, keep on growing in this game
>and learning all that you can.

You're telling me that a canned opener works every time?

That can't be what you're saying.

All it's supposed to do is start up a convo, we call em ice breakers where i'm

Very different from a line.

>I don’t see where youR even coming close
>to making a judgment call such as this
>statement, as to say that I am assuming
>that all girls are the same. Look at my
>words kid, have I not said study the
>individual. Have you not seen my words
>say take an active interest in her. Do
>you even see where I’m going with this
>right now or am I wasting my time trying
>to school you?

If you're think you're just talking to me, you're incorrect. Everyone is
reading this. Not because i'm some important person, but this conversation is.
If people want to switch from the mASF to your method, by explaining it and
defending it in a public forum, they'll be able to make an informed decision.

Again, no one is saying to not take an active interest, the question is when,
and by who?

Advanced player? Studies his target, and then approaches, and tailors the
seduction to the chick.

Beginner, likes what he sees and then approaches. He kicks his opener, and a
lot of times it opens the conversation, and he can do whatever he would do

What you seem to be saying is that the beginner should just improvise from the
very beginning.

My criticism of this improvise from jump street, is that it will take a long
time to really be good at straight improvisation. - which I think everyone
agrees with - but the results are better.

My real concern is that a beginner will not get the "a-ha" moment by going
improvised first.

>My life experiences that I’ve relayed.

Again, You say you've lived x,y,z and i believe you, I have no reason to not
believe you. So don't mistake this post for non=belief.

But once you put the evidence on the table, you need to explain how your
evidence counters the argument.

If you say you did something 1 time, and it worked out, and it didn't work - to
me the 1 time is not really enough evidence. If you've done something a lot,
you'd have multiple examples. (I appreciate your use of multiple examples

Now that might be a lot to type out, but you could generalize some themes -
themes that meet the criticism.

I don't want to get into argument theory, cause that's what I do for a living,
but I'm from the school that says Show and Prove. You've shown. I'm waiting
for the prove.

>I’ve explained the benefits
>of developing natural game» and used
>analogies. If you can’t accept that,
>then there is no use in you and I
>discussing anything further young man.

Playboy, I understand the benefits of developing natural game».

Again, if folks use canned openers and scripts on a regular basis and get pussy
on a regular basis - and the whole purpose of "natural" game or "artificial"
game is to get pussy - then you need to explain why one is preferable.

Is it that artificial game, for lack of a better term, takes more work? Is
less efficient? Doesn't handle every conceivable problem? Gets lower quality

Make it plain.

The main criticisms against mASF are that
1) too complicated
2) too much memorization
3) doesn't work

And then there are those who stick with it, and after a while they've
internalized everything, and they stop using the foundational techniques. They
have different criticism, many of which you'll see in advanced.

>Then you really don’t know the game now
>do you. That isn’t a major weakness but
>a statement of truth.

No, you said in another post, that you're not trying to fight
evolution/biology/natural selection.

That's the whole purpose of mASF.

The girl you want to talk to, might not choose you.

You at a club. You see a fine shorty.

She doesn't violate your perimeter, make eye contact, none of that stuff. (I
know it's hard for you to believe, but it is possible - in your redneck bar
example it's very possible there's a good looking woman there who wouldn't'
give you the time of day - just by looking at you)

She might see you, and write you off. Plenty of chicks might not want to holla
at a Big Black Dude, a short white dude, an Asian cat, a Latino, a biker, a
computer programmer, video game geek - all she is going off of is your
appearance and the way your carry yourself.

Do you let her control what you want to do?

I don't.

mASF says within 3 seconds go talk to her, open her up.
Bust a routine, get rapport, escalate, take her home.

>If you think your
>scripts and techniques trick women into
>choosing you then you’re a fool.

lol @ choosing.

>Remember this. Women do the choosing.
>OK! Let go of any preconceived ideas
>about hypnosis working on women to …do
>what…get them to choose you. Seduction
>is about talking that women into making
>the choice for YOU.

Next you're gonna tell me that a woman makes up her mind in 15 seconds or some
other nonsense.

This isn't about hypnosis, or NLP. Stay up on the techniques. No one is
using a blow job pattern and dick points.

You step into the mix, you start a conversation. In that conversation, a chick
who wasn't checking for you, now sees something she didn't see.

It might be the words you say, but a lot of times it's the way you say it.
Your confidence.

As you lay back in the cut spitting your script, you're watching her, your
listening to her responses. She's touching your arm, laughing at your jokes,
whatever. That's when you know it's on.

But you might not have said nothing cause she didn't violate your perimeter.
That's crazy to me.

Had you improvised and not spit something you know typically works and gives
you the same reactions over and over again- you'd have to think of what to say
next, and you'd have to figure out how she's reacting.

>Because this is what all of the openers
>and scripts that your practicing is
>about. Getting women to make YOU the

I agree on that.

>The whole you’re the prize thing still
>revolves around HER making YOU the
>prize. And what is she doing, I’m sure
>you’ve got the truth by now, she is make
>a choice.

But let's put it like this. If I pick the candidates for an election, when you
vote, do you really have a choice?

With an active mASF approach, you're eliminating the 50 other guys at a venue,
cause you're bringing her into your world. She wasn't interested in you when
you walked up. But a hour later she's wondering how come she didn't see you
before, or how come she didn't notice you.

>LOL@ya young man. You ignored the part
>about being black and in a redkneck

I'm in Texas. I've pulled bitches at redneck clubs.
White girls love black dudes.

If they were dodging the eye contact, it's cause Cletus n'nem would go get the
shot gun.

I turn lemons into lemonade.
I don't leave the grocery store for a restaurant.

>Seduction is about marketing and
>sales. You gotta go where your product
>is the most marketable.

It helps.

But I've been in sales, insurance actually, and i've talked mf'ers into paying
the insurance company 100+ dollars a month for the rest of their lives.

Black, White, Latino, old, young, republican, democrat, makes no difference.

On top of that, I was using scripts, lol.

In that setting, the people respond the same way.
"I can't afford it"
"not right now"

There are scripts for those moments, and I spent a good few months eating good,
because people react the same way to them.

Close 100% Naw. Close 33-45%? Yup.

More information is better, but sometimes you gotta play the hand you're dealt.

A poor salesman blames his territory.

>I am not
>marketable in lets say a club down south
>with a white only crowd and a KKK banner
>flying in the background. Again you are
>missing the point. I do appreciate your
>doing your research but your not looking
>for truth your looking for the wrong

I'm not looking for a wrong thing, I'm suggesting that before you take a crap
on canned openers, you really should read how other people have been able to
make the work on a regular basis.

A canned opener is not going to get you into bed, but there are scripts and
methods for that.

But this would be the 5th time i've said the same thing, but you continue to
ignore it.

> Am I making sense here fella?

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think you're making sense in light
of the whole philosophy of mASF.

It always helps to be good looking, athletic, rich, et cetera. No one denies
that. Our whole lives society tells us that those are the kind of guys that
hot chicks want.

mASF, says sure, but they'll fuck you as well if you know how to get them

>My suggestion to you is to go back and
>first of forget everything that you’ve
>learned about seduction and then re-read
>all of my posts.


>Anyone posting “she flaked on me what do
>I do now” type of posts. I would put my
>players up against you any day of the

Are you challenging me?

Have I gotten under your skin with trying to clarify what you've said.


>As you have read by my posts I go get
>mine. You have even seen me post (since
>you claim to of read them) that in the
>old days I did the ho chasing on every
>girl that walked by and at my age I
>boiled my shit down to a tight and
>complete system.

Naw, what i'm saying is that you wait for a woman to choose you.

They might wait for a woman to come up to them.

But mASF is you don't wait for a woman to choose you, you approach regardless
of whether she's seen you.

>My use of compliments motIvated her to
>follow my lead. Our dance was like a
>passionate erotic madonna video. It's no
>wonder so many ho's were gasping as they

Erotica Madonna? What is this 1988?

{snip e-mail}

>In closing I didn't compliment her on
>her looks like all the symps that were
>after her. Instead I found something
>deeper to reach into and exploit..

But did you fuck her?

Did you fuck her within 7 hours?

And if you didn't fuck her that night,did you fuck her the 2nd day?

Aight then.

This board is called alt.seduction.FAST, not 2 weeks and 20 emails later.

Obviously you want different things than I do.

You're talking about getting control of a woman's mind, and being in control
for the rest of her days.

Not everyone wants that. With power comes responsibility, and I'd rather a
chick have her own mind, so I can fuck her and bounce.

>>There really is no mystery to a high
>closing rate with your method. “

Potna, I will *son* you when it comes to debating.

It's what I do as a profession.
But I'm not finna pull out my rules of evidence, civil procedure, and logical
fallacies to "win" some debate online. I could go line by line and pick apart
everything you say, bring up contradictions in your post, bring up
contradictions in your other posts, but it's not what I want to do. I'm not
trying AMOG another player on a message board. It's stupid and childish.

What I want, and I hope i'm not coming off rude or anything, is a real good
discussion. And so far, it's been pretty good.

Again, all due respect, you're the master, and i'm the grass hopper.


Maybe you misunderstood my usage of the word passive.

You wait for her to choose you, and then you finish her off.

That's passive in COMPARISON TO, not waiting for her to choose you, but
approaching and getting her to choose you through what you say.

If i'm saying what you're saying, I want to apologize.

But my reading of your game, is that you wait for the chick to choose you,
BEFORE you even speak to her.

That, to me, is passive.


Me? I learned mASF stuff for a couple of months, and bagged 18 chicks in a
year. I would have done more, but I ended up LTR'ing 3 of em. (and those were
some good ltr's actually - I just got bored)

I'll be the first to tell you, that is a small # in comparison to someone
that's 46. But with that said, I went from 2 to 20 in 12 months. And I was

I pretty much checked every type of girl off my list except Filipina's.

But I don't have any e=mails or instant messenger files, because I fuck girls
in real space and in real time.

I don't send them love notes. So I guess I don't have any evidence.

I don't know if our game is different, but I want diff things than you do.

>Above Robin stated that I pulled her to
>the dance floor. Before I ask you this
>let me fill you in. I saw her walking
>in the hallway of the club. I went over
>to her stood in front of her and grabbed
>her hand and took her (behind me) to
>this hip hop dance room near by.
>Now she stated that she felt an instant
>attraction to me.

I never said my knowledge of the game was superior.
What I said was, that I understood your M.O.

But chances are

1) she was a white girl
2) used to white boys
3) couldn't dance
4) Felt your *alphaness* as you grabbed her hand.
5) you prolly clocked her swaying to the beat
6) You're black - instant mystery/taboo factor
7) the 'instant attraction" is rationalization for the her getting wet "while
you were getting your Madonna on"

Pulling an impressionable white chick is not that hard.

For example, Last wednesday I was at a local venue. I'm like one of 5 black
dudes there.

Place is crawling with chicks, white chicks especially.

Dj puts on "Hey Ladies" by the beastie boys.

I'm holding court in the middle of the floor.

Blonde chick, nice ass for a white girl, c-cups, runs to the floor with her

The indian shorty i'm standing next to says, "I think they like you"

To show the indian chick, I already knew it, I reached over and grabbed
Snowflake's hand and pulled her close and she "opened" me right there. {it's
what you do at black clubs - but sistas are up on that}

She had the DDB within a few moments.

I told the indian shorty, "Yeah, she digs me", and continued my convo with the
Indian girl.

I have now told you a story. But you don't know me, so you have no way to
verify if I'm telling the truth.

If you want to get into a pissing match, be my guest.

I know you'll win. You're 46.

I already know you're a better player than I am.

But even if I'm a novice and you're the zen master, my defense of canned
openers and the general mASF philosophy still stands.

You can use "ad hominems" all you want - try to attack my credibility, my
experience, but that does nothing to undermine my *argument*.

Either you can separate the message from the messenger, or you can not.

'preciate it.

Unless otherwise noted, this article is Copyright©2005 by "Mugen" with implicit permission provided to for reproduction. Any other use is prohibited without the explicit permission of the original author.


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