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Re: Perception of intent...

mASF post by toecutter

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Re: Perception of intent...
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mASF post by "toecutter"
posted on: mASF forum: General Discussion newsgroup, February 2, 2002

Spirit, this is good. You are a man along my lines of thinking. Let me add
some input:

<spirit> wrote in message
> 1 Opening / Approaching / Fluffing
> What is the intention behind this part of a PU? Whatever method I use to
> do this, for me it is getting my `foot in the door` I intend to do / say
> something which will allow me to continue seducing a HB - or, if you prefer,
> something that will enable me to spend more time with this HB.

Agreed. However I hate the term "fluff". The openening section is too
important to be relying on "fluff". You need interesting routines for this. I
will re-post something from Mysterys lounge shortly on my thoughts about SS
vs. NLP that goes into this interesting routines thing.

> 2. Eliciting Values

I know this is controversial, but consider DROPPING eliciting values from your
game. What do they do for you? Here is where I am going to go against the
common wisdom:

Drop rapport!
Drop eliciting values!
Drop submodalities!

These are all BORING CONVERSATIONS. Like that "What qualities do you find
imporant about a man?" routine. It is so bad. Then when you go "And what does
a guy with a good sense of humour give you?". Man this is really bad. And she
is going "I dont know" and you are going "But if you did know" and she is
going "what do you want from me?" How is this interesting to her? Why is she
speaking back to you? How have you captured her attention and made her
intregued? See I dont even understand what you would then do with the
information gleaned, because then trying to demonstrate each of those
charicteristics or making sure she feels each of the criterea is a SELLING
MODEL based on LOGIC. As if she is going to realise through logic that these
are my criterea and this BORING FUCKING GUY asking BORING FUCKING QUESTIONS is
actually my perfect man. I have asked every SSer I have ever met how to get
this an entertaining routine, and some of them tell me that you should elicit
qualities about sex, but it doesn't work for me. I put it to you that this
routine SUCKS. I put it to you that chasing rapport is supplicating. Not an
alpha trait. We need to question conventional wisdom here. I find these
unworkable routines. Certainly no good for groups and definately highly
questionable for one on one also.

NLP is an analytical tool designed for therapy. The value in NLP terms of a
value elicitation is clear. But NLP has limitations. And those limitations are
that it is not particularly interesting. In fact, the point is to be
uninteresting to the conscious mind so that we can communicate with the
unconsious. That is what confusion induction is all about. All well and good
in therapy. But the PU Arts are largely in entertainment. In this case it is
important to be interesting. Now, I can use NLP and still be interesting. I
can be telling a story and say "So there she was and she knew the guy was
looking at her, and you know how it feels when you have a foreign guy looking
at you from afar. And he lets his eyes wander, and you know he is eyes are
exploring your face (as you explore her face with your eyes) and wander down
to your neck (as look at her neck), and you are enjoying it, and down to your
body (as you move your eyes back to her eyes) as he is undressing you with his
eyes. And you feel your heart starting to race as you realise you are becoming
aroused. So that is what was going through this chicks mind as she sat there
...." See what I mean about interesting vs. not interesting, and how you can
use NLP as a tool and spark her interest and attention, and you can use NLP as
a tool and ask difficult questions that she is not interested in answering.
I've run that routine maybe 100 times and then threw it away because it is
garbage. See the re-post I am about to post.

> OK, during this part of a PU my primary intention is not to lay the chick.
> My primary intention (i.e. the one displayed more prominently or somewhat
> easier to perceive) is to find stuff out about her... This `stage` (like
> all the others!) relies on control of the conversation on your part, in that
> however ( H or S ) she is thinking we want it to be about something (
> anything!) other than the real reason we are still talking to her.

I think you can not ask any questions that are too personal at this stage as
it begs the question "who the fuck are you with your 20 questions? What are
you trying to sell me here? What is this, am I a contestant on Jeopardy and
this is the intro where they say "and Karen is into Pressing Flowers ... how
many pressed flowers do you have, Karen? And how do pressed flowers make you

If you have seen your first IOI (ie. she has asked you your name, consider
SHARING something about yourself at this point ... "I have just come home from
North America where I spent more than 5 years ..." HER: "Oh, really, that is
interesting ..." YOU: "Yeah ... (insert interesting routine where you are
letting her into your feelings and displaying a little weakness ...). Now ask
a personal questions of her and drill down to feelings. But not the "what do
you look for in a man" conversation as it is awful.

> Once again if she has enough time to stop and think systematically about the
> real reason you`re there - you`re doing something wrong!

I think it is okay if she is up with why you are there. I mean it is
ambiguous, but when you opened, did you really want the opinion of the guys in
her group as to whether if you got your tongue pierced it would be cool? Like
she kind of knows why you are there, but you want it to be completely
ambiguous. That is how you can tease her. With out the ambiguity there is no
flirting, only propositioning.

> All her thoughts,
> all her mental energy should be directed towards thinking about things (her)
> to provide you with answers to the questions you`re asking

Yeah, but dont push this too hard. The EV thing can make her think TOO hard.
Let my point you to an old post by BookGuy that I really enjoyed at the time
on not making her think at all (whom I suspect changed his handle and is still
well and truely with us today ... I recognise him in one of the regulars, but
I may be wrong).

> 3. Creating/Changing a state / Patterning
> So we decide to run a pattern.... What is the primary intention here? To
> fuck her? Nope, to change her state.
> Once again we are directing her thoughts, her mental energy towards
> something more important than us - her and her feelings. We may be anchoring
> these feelings to ourselves whatever, but if she`s involved in the pattern
> she won`t have the time to think about anything else - hence the DDB look we
> often see.
> During this why would she even care what your `real` intention is? You`re
> just some guy `helping` her experience some great emotions...

Exactly and getting carried away in some great emotions yourself. The two of
you are there both FEELING REALLY GOOD. And you are comforable together. And
you are talking about sex. But not about you and her having sex. Just about
sex as a topic. Like jokes. And stories. And attitudes. And that sort of

> 4. Rapport / being Alpha / Body language

Consider seperating these concepts as they are not linked, moving this way up,
and-or dropping some elements completely. Rapport is overemphasised by SS.

> The Close
> Earlier I said "before WE close" I chose that for one specific reason - if
> a PU is done `well` then your true intention should not be "I want something
> from you" whether that want is a number, a kiss or a fuck...
> The intention of a PUA here should be *I intend to accept something from
> you* Whilst this may seem at odds with some of the other views within the
> ASF community I believe that if a PU is done correctly then she will be the
> one intending to get something from you.

Absolutely, but not always going to happen. It is role playing. It is not her
JOB to initiate. It is yours. Do not shy away from this. Ask for the order.
This is about PHASE SHIFT. You can give away your intents at this stage to the
level of close that you require. I think that you can push the pretext too
far. I have been watching a guy work recently who will be speaking to a girl
for a really short period of time since his conversational game is weak, then
tell her the (cool) nightshot he is going to later, ask her if she wants to
come, then swap mobile phone numbers with her as they both pull out their $800
mobile phones in an act of being really pretensious (I am in an incredibly
pretensios city). Point is, he considers it a number close. I dont. She gave
over her number as an OPTION of following him LATER THAT NIGHT as opposed to
saying "fuck off budy". The intent for which you need the phone number needs
to be clearer than that IMO. I once was doing a lot of recruitment of
employees, and went to a recruitment fair. There were plenty of really good
looking girls there looking for work. Now I tried to PU there, but I found the
CONTEXT fucked with me. Like she was speaking back and trying to impress me
because it was a JOB INTERVIEW style conversation even though it was casual.
THen in getting her phone number, it was written on their resumes. These were
numbers as resumes, and the INTENT of getting to know her socially or
romantically was not there, so it was no good. They were not numbers I could
use. The same is my point with letting her know why you are closing at this
stage (obviously a kiss close is different, as is an extraction close AFTER
you have kissed her). It is a tricky dance this intent thing.

Unless otherwise noted, this article is Copyright©2002 by "toecutter" with implicit permission provided to for reproduction. Any other use is prohibited without the explicit permission of the original author.


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