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Validation Issues (long and detailed)

mASF post by imperfect

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Validation Issues (long and detailed)
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mASF post by "imperfect"
posted on: mASF forum: Advanced Discussion, December 12, 2004

---- Introduction to Validation ----

Everyone needs validation. It’s basically the point of life. We, as humans,
have no real inherit purpose or worth, so we base our worth on validation.
Validation is basically what other people think of us. There are two ways to
be validated: internally validated (confidence and assurance that you are a
good enough person, and other people do value you you because you value
yourself) and externally validated (you get validated by outside sources:
namely people, or actions that you believe makes other people like you, such as
being good at sports, funny, rich, lifting weights, etc or having someone
straight out validate you by showing interest, having sex with you, etc).
Validation is ultimate pleasure, and not being validated is ultimate pain.
That’s why people are so superficial, because we have to constantly be
Furthermore, we want to be validated by people of higher value. But what
makes someone higher value? That’s also determined by validation. How
validated are they? They are either more internally validated then us
(confident, implicit social proof, and in their own frame are all things
basically meaning “internally validated”), or more externally validated (social
proofed, good looking to others, get complimented, celebrity, you hear other
people compliment that person, etc) or both.
The way that people try to get validated, though, usually lowers their value.
Usually, there are cliques, which offer validation, during high school, that
shape that person’s life. Because it’s there that they decide what is going to
be their “identity” that offers them validation. Rich, popular, and athletic
are one group. Gothic, weird, dressing in black is another. Even smart kids
use the fact that being smart is validation. Later in life, validation is
highly associated with money. In college it’s associated with getting laid a
lot. To get validated though, people will act very AFC to seek approval. Why?
Because seeking approval is AFC by definition. People not seeking approval
seem to already be validated, then that raises their value, so more people seek
validation from them, which pushes their frame of being a high value person.
That’s a “natural”. An AFC is just someone who was born opposite to that.
Never validated naturally, so they seek it and usually fail because to seek it
they have to be needy, which makes people who can validate them push them away.

---- Validation in Sarging and Relationships ----

Girls want to have their hearts broken. Why? Guys who can break their hearts
are taking away their validation. Then they’re saying they don’t need the
girl’s validation. That’s ultimately attractive. Doing a lot of push is
taking validation away. It’s also raising your value, the two things are
correlated. Then that person, realizing that you are higher value and that
they don’t have your validation, will begin to chase after you in any way
possible. That means calling ten times a day, buying you presents, sleeping
with you, giving you head, going out of their way for you, bugging your
friends. In some cases, girls fight each other over a guy’s validation.
People travel all over the world for that “one special girl” who validates
them, when really if they find another girlfriend who validates them to the
same extent, they would never have considered doing all this needy behavior for
their boyfriend’s validation.
In fact, no one relationship is going to be love statistically. Most people
only date about 12-20 people their entire life (for men it’s less), and maybe
consider 3-4 of them for marriage TOPS. So why do guys and girls become so
attached that they feel heart broken, devastated, get one-it is, etc for
someone? Because that was their main source of validation, and then they lost
it. They need that validation, and that person took it from them. They will
chase after it like a drug. If they would just realize that any random girl in
any random bar can probably give them the same feelings their “love of their
life” did if they put enough effort into finding and relating to that person,
we wouldn’t have all these needy behaviors going on.
With my first ASF girlfriend, I did a LOT of push. And I don’t mean saying
“oh you can’t cook?”, I mean getting her mad at me. We considered breaking up
like twice. She saw me with another girl hanging all over and giggling at me.
She got mad at me so I said, “fine, be mad. Me and you are over. You think
you’re the center of the universe? Fuck that. Maybe you are, but not mine.
Goodbye”. She calls me back four times until I pick up (this was over the
phone after she saw me and another girlfriend together previously that day) and
apologizes. She cries to me and begs to see me.
Later she asks to come over. I tell her no, I already have company. A girl.
And yes, I plan on fucking her.
I told her I cheated on her three times, twice when she left and once after
our fight. I told her as soon as she left I would have another girlfriend
within a couple weeks, max. I basically told her she was replaceable. And
after doing all of this mean shit that most guys think would get their asses
dumped, she chases after me HARDCORE. She buys me stuff all the time, drives
10 minutes twice to pick me up and loses her parking space at the university.
Anything, dinner, presents. Seriously, shit that you think you only hear
really AFC guys doing for girls, she did that for me.
So what’s my point? Be a dick and tell her she’s one of many of your girls?
Well, not entirely. It all has to do with validation.
In a sarge or relationship, you first have to establish the value of yourself
to near hers. This then allows you to establish the value of your validation.
Your validation needs to be important to the girl. This can be done in many
ways. One is just to be a cooler guy who is more popular than her, so that she
seeks your validation because you’re higher value. Another is to never be
impressed by her, so that she wonders why she can’t get your validation, and
then she wants it. Validating other people and not her will also make her need
your validation. This can mean just ignoring her but talking with her friends,
or taking her to hang out with you and your friend and ignoring her. It can
also mean giving easy validation to her friends and not to her. One example is
I always tell my girlfriend’s friends I love them (the girls, not the guys),
but I don’t tell my girlfriends that I love them. The important thing is that
you establish that she needs your validation either by a) being cooler than
her, so she needs your approval, or b) not giving her validation so she chases
it because girls naturally want validation from anyone who is remotely as cool
or cooler than them or even a bit less cool, or c) validating and paying
attention to other people around you but not her so she feels unvalidated by
you to a large extent, and chases after you, or d) showing that you consider
her validation unnecessary so that she thinks of you as more important than
her, and seeks your validation; or any combination of these . And the best
part of this, besides getting to be the one chased in the relationship, is that
they drive you around and buy you food… uh, I mean doing all this push means
that when you do pull, it will always work because they NEED that pull so bad.
Yeah, the food and rides are definitely nice though! But seriously, walking
away will make girls want you back ten times more than just letting her take
your validation for granted.
I leave after stopping by a girlfriend’s house to go hang out with other
friends, and she loses my validation. Later she is upset about this, but
instead of apologizing and validating her, I say “Fine, I’m gonna go. I’ll see
you later, I need to visit some friends here at the dorms.” She immediately
starts kissing me, dragging me over, physically pulling me towards her, saying
she’s so sorry and it’s her fault. Why? I took my approval away from her, and
then she went from thinking, “Why should I have to put up with him if he treats
me bad. Why should I like a guy who is not nice to me?” to “Oh shit, he
doesn’t approve of me anymore. He isn’t needy. What can I do to make him want
me? I MUST make him want me again. How can I supplicate?”
But normally guys cannot do this in relationships. Why? They think saying “If
you want to try to make me feel bad, I’m leaving. I can find someone else who
will enjoy my time and company. Bye.” Will just have the girl say “Fine, fuck
you jerk. Get out!”. Well, it may, say 5-10% of the time, if the situation is
really fucked up, like you cheated on her with her sister or something. But
guess what? 95% of the time, if you apologize, she’s going to react badly no
matter what in the long run, and probably at the time being. And even if she
doesn’t, you just validated her just for griping at you. Now she has no reason
to chase after your validation, and you just did something needy to get her
validation. If you push and take her validation away, she will usually respond
how you want her to. You can turn situations like this 180 degrees just by
switching who is trying for who’s validation, and who is getting who’s
Now before you say, “You jerk, what do you hate girls or something?”. Well ask
yourself this: which does a girl want: to be very attracted to a guy who can
make her ultimately happy if he does decide to validate her, even if that means
acting a certain way (i.e. sometimes be a “jerk”), OR does she want a needy guy
who is kissing up to her, and yeah she has his validation, but his validation
is worthless to her because she can get it whenever she wants. But part of
filling the role of the first, attractive guy means she may be unhappy
sometimes. And yes I’ve made girls cry, and it sucks in a way because I don’t
want that, but in the end she’s happier when she does get validated. One
girlfriend literally tells me and my friends she does not know why she likes
me, but she likes me more than almost any guy she’s been with. How fucked up
is that? She can’t explain why she likes me, but she needs me. I do a lot of
push to make my validation extremely important to her.
Normally if a guy’s girlfriend starts ignoring him, not returning his calls,
what does he do? Something retarded like call her eight times a day. If she
always called him and said she loved him, she’d never cheat, etc, he would lose
respect for her. Hey, it’s the same thing with girls. If I call a girl eight
times a day she has no choice but to disrespect me. I wouldn’t even be
respecting myself because I would be literally begging for her validation for
calling so much, apologizing, not getting mad, taking her shit, etc. So why
would I expect her to respect me? Look, I’m not saying treat girls like shit,
but never let them lose respect. Don’t ever let a girl decide your validation
isn’t as valuable as it should be. I make girls sad by taking validation away,
but I would never do something like straight out call them a bitch, hurt them,
or anything like that.
Scenario one: a guy has a girlfriend and they’ve been dating for two weeks.
In this instance, she calls and says she loves him, etc. He later cheats and
blames her, claiming “She didn’t give me enough space”. Scenario two, same
girl: She doesn’t call him as much, she has other guy friends, she isn’t
needy. He in turn wants her validation because he isn’t getting it, so he
calls all the time and is always asking “What’s wrong?” “Tell me what’s wrong”
“Is something wrong?” (on a side not, never ask a girl what’s wrong. Either
know or assume it isn’t your fault). Well, he is so focused on needing her
validation now it’s needy. He probably won’t even go out and try to cheat on
her. In fact he would only cheat if a girl offered validation because he needs
SOME validation very badly. He thinks, “Shit she’s mad. Something’s wrong.
What can I do to fix this? How can I supplicate?”. Then he gives her
validation and lowers the value of his validation at the same time. She has no
reason to chase.
I still care about girls, but I now realize how I have to act to keep the
relationship tight. I do feel a special connection with both of my
girlfriends, but I know there are so many girls out there I’m going to meet and
be in relationships with very soon and over my lifetime, that I can walk away
and get feelings from other girls. Sound unromantic? Not really. I don’t
take the fact that I care away from her, I just usually take my validation away
from her.
That’s why girls like players. If you have two girlfriends, they’ll probably
both be happier so long as you don’t cross any paths of what they have decided
society will “let them do” and “not let them do” (even if they like you, they
may leave if you cheat because they already decided they won’t be with a guy
who cheats). Well, the reason is if one does something bad, you won’t think
“Oh shit I need her. I need her for sex, for validation, everything. How can
I supplicate, and therefore be less attractive to her, to get her back?”,
you’ll think “Whatever. She can go, and therefore I take my validation away
and she has to chase it, because if not I have another girlfriend who will”.
When my girlfriend caught me with a girl, she gets mad. I tell her she over
reacted, then don’t return her calls. I tell her I don’t think I can forgive
her for acting the way she acts. BAM, 180 degree flip. She goes from “Ben is
an asshole” to “How can I get Ben to forgive me?”
Anytime I get blown out of a sarge, I know it’s because the girl either saw me
as being socially weird for approaching, or she wasn’t seeking my validation.
She didn’t see me as high enough value to matter, she does nothing for my
validation. She thinks instead I am going for her validation, which she then
says I can’t have because she has no use to give me it, it won’t validate her
at all. So I get blown out, or the set never really opens well, or I get shit
tested off the opener, or I never get attraction. Girls have no use for the
validation of someone who is needier than them in most cases. On the other
hand, most people want validation from anyone who is somewhat cool, simply
because humans are just huge validation junkies.
My friend and wing Phil told me he does best when he doesn’t care. I told him
I do best when the girl is showing lots of attraction and kino because then the
rest is natural. We don’t need to run material then because we naturally are
smooth and funny and calibrated. But what it comes down to is when we are not
seeking their validation we do well. When they are seeking our validation we
escalate easily. If she’s lower value, you won’t try for validation. You act
that way and it’s attractive. Vice versa on being unattractive if you need her
to validate you.
So how do we correct this? How can we use this to our advantage on doing sets
and in relationships? You CAN fake being validated, and you CAN fake not
validating them, but only to an extent. Faking being validated is doing things
to show implicit social proof, active disinterest, not giving out much
information about you, not leaning in, etc. Faking not validating them is not
hitting on them, teasing them, doing back turns, not showing any signs of being
needy. But this can only be faked to a certain point.
You know those kids in high school who wear Abercrombie and Fitch but it
doesn’t look quite right, and they always try to crack jokes but their shit
just is not funny? Don’t be that guy. What’s he doing? He’s trying to hold a
frame of someone who you should be seeking validation from, while at the same
time massively trying to get people to validate him. Same thing with guys who
try to pick fights, or pick on nerdy kids. It’s all massively obvious that
it’s an act, because they’re so needy during all their interactions. You can
call this subcommunication, to me it’s pretty obvious. It’s pretty easy to
tell within a couple minutes if you’d consider a guy to be naturally good with
girls or not.
That’s not to say don’t fake it. By all means fake it, but make sure you’re
actually progressing. It’s a process of becoming higher value, you fake stuff
to an extent, get a girlfriend, then truly become slightly higher value because
you just scored with a girl and that validated you, so you stop seeking
validation, and you raise value and stop giving girls value just for being
girls. Then more and more. That’s all covered in Phil’s notes though so I
won’t get into detail, but it’s basically to say that you can’t stop naturally
trying for validation completely. It’s a process: fake higher value, get
results, get validated, actually become higher value. But when you do actually
become validated, you will naturally not seek it. Everything falls into place
slowly once you get more and more expierence and validation.
Even if you’re a hot guy, if you seek validation or give your validation away
easily, you will not be attractive. Even if you’re ugly, if you don’t seek
validation and make your validation be chased after, you will be extremely
attractive. That’s really what it comes down to in the end. Girls will like
you for two reasons: 1) they want your validation, and 2) you give them good
emotions, and they associate pleasure with being with you. In my opinion,
reason 1 is extremely more powerful.

---- Validation and Higher Value ---

This is gonna be short, just to explain that validation and value are directly
- If you are high value, you are a source for validation.
- Not seeking validation raises your value.
- Having people seek validation from you raises your value.
- High value girls will not seek validation from someone considerably lower

---- Backward Rationalizing About Validation, Over Doing It, and Revenge as
Validation ----

One bad thing about validation is that if you over do it, it’s going to back
fire. The first thing is that if a girl doesn’t get your validation, and she
gives up or decides she doesn’t need it, she’s going to backwards rationalize
that she never wanted your validation. I see this happen to me occasionally,
I’ll have a girl all over me at school or something, then I blow them out or do
something un-calibrated, and all of a sudden things are totally different.
Like friendly, but awkward. No more going to lunch together. And also I’ve
had my girlfriend kiss another guy during a 3 day “fight” where we were broken
up before. I’ve also blown a girl out of set with me by over teasing, and I
see her hitting on some other guy in a matter of minutes to get validation from
If she can’t get your validation, as in you keep pushing and pushing until you
pushed her ass so hard she’s half a mile away or something, she’s going to give
up. You’re still higher value, but she’s given up. She can’t have you, you
never let her win. That means no sex! But worse, she’s going to decide, to
spare herself from bad emotions, that she never liked you. “Well he approached
me and it was weird,”, “Well he isn’t that good looking, in fact he’s a little
bit goofy looking”, “I just wanted to get back at my boyfriend, I was never
really attracted to him”. To avoid this, just don’t blow her out. And if you
do this, you are going to need her to be validated by you to get back in, but
she still has to be chasing you. Just like when you cheat on a girl and that
girl has all her friends tell her “I never liked him anyways. He’s a dog.
Plus he’s short”. I’ll write more on this later when I find out more about it.
This goes hand in hand with over doing it.
Another thing about over doing it is it may come off as insecure. You know
those people who always try to talk about frats and sororities and going to
parties, even though they are not in a frat or a sorority, and all they do at
parties is drink and avoid the hot girls or guys? Yeah. If your push comes
off as qualifying, it’s insecure. Then it becomes seeking validation. If you
tell a cool story, don’t tell it to impress her. That’s my problem with DHVs,
even if it’s a good story, the fact that you see it as a DHV is going to mean
you’re qualifying to a certain extent. If you seek validation, it’s gonna come
off as that. And all your push and DHVs are going to be qualifying. This is
bad, avoid this at all costs.
The third is finding other sources of validation. In relationships, I think
this is the biggest problem. If you cheat on a girl, tell her, and then say
“whatever, leave if you want, I don’t need you” and don’t talk to her for three
days, she’s going to cheat unless she is already so hooked to you it’s going to
stop her. This is just human nature. If your girlfriend cheats on you, and
you have some girl at work who has been asking you on a date, you’re probably
going to sleep with that girl. It’s just natural human instinct. She loses
out on your validation, so she goes out and can find it from somewhere else.
She finds it and then has sex with the guy or kisses him because he offers
validation and she wants it. The best way to do this is to still be a source
of attainable validation. Don’t always push. At some point show her you care.
This means give her validation when she earned it, not seek hers. That way she
won’t have to find someone else to give her validation.

---- Some Lines, Techniques, and Ideas ---

Taking validation away:
- When she calls, you’re about to go out with “friends”. Yeah, two girls and a
guy. Yeah, a girl. Yes, that one from work who has been bringing you lunch
and she’s so sweet!
- When you call, you just got back from hanging out with friends.
- When she calls, stop and say someone called your cell, or home phone, or
someone is on call waiting. You’ll call her back in 5 minutes. Then wait 20.
- Say, “Oh what was that, I wasn’t listening.”
- Pay more attention to her and your friends than her.
- If she is mean, be mean back. Be meaner.
- Control your temper no matter what, but show her that you won’t take her
complaining to you.
- “Don’t complain to me. Come to me with your problems if you want help fixing
them, I’m not one of your girlfriends who gives you sympathy.”
- Do small CF remarks to other girls in front of her where it’s obviously
- If a girl flirts with you, shift your body language towards her instead of
your girlfriend or target.
- When her cell rings, walk off and do something else, even if she hangs it up.
- Just any general idea that makes her chase.
- Little neg hits.
- “Aww that’s so cute!” to random things or when she gets angry.
- Act like you’re cooler than her and all her friends.

Giving validation:
- Qualify her on something good.
- Tell her things about you personally that you don’t reveal to others.
- Compliment her on something she does, like she sings nice, dresses nice,
- Put your arm around her in public.
- Open doors for her.
- Goofy push-pull and roleplaying.
- Any fun little attraction, qualifying, or rapport thing.

More to come later. I’ve had to take like a week break from sarging, and with
finals I won’t be sarging until Saturday, possibly even Monday. So I’m gonna
be watching for this, and experimenting with my current GFs some more, and I’ll
write it all down.

(ben2004 on mirc)
(spreadtheplague on aim)

Unless otherwise noted, this article is Copyright©2004 by "imperfect" with implicit permission provided to for reproduction. Any other use is prohibited without the explicit permission of the original author.


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