The Top Pickup Artist Forum On The Internet: Fast Seduction 101

Home | 

Gods, Demi-Gods and Mortals

mASF post by stevie_pua

<< Home ... < Relevance Matches ... "neg theory"

Gods, Demi-Gods and Mortals
You can search for more articles and discussions like this on the rest of this web site.

Acronyms used in this article can be looked up on the acronyms page.  To get involved in discussions like this, you can join the mASF discussion forum at [posts in this section may be edited, but only for spelling corrections and readability]

mASF post by "stevie_pua"
posted on: mASF forum: Advanced Discussion, February 2, 2004


This post is written after having read the recent Bad Boy Workshop review post
on mASF Field Reports by Recoil. The subject of my post here is how people
learn, integrate and make work the different bodies of knowledge that are
available to them on the boards. I find that the success or otherwise in using
methods taught here depends very much on whether the aspirant person is a God
(natural PUA or near to it), a Demi-God (has some good basic game and skill to
begin with in some areas) or a mortal (wants to learn but is learning largely
from scratch).

I will mention what the workshop seems to have given these particular attendees
in passing, but that is really the smaller issue here. I want to extrapolate
from their experiences onto something bigger, which is about how one learns PU
theories effectively. I’ll give some of my own insights on this matter
presently in the post.

I enjoyed the recent workshop report by Recoil about his experience during and
after taking the Bad Boy workshop. It is great when you know you have found
someone who can teach you the skills you are looking for in a way that you find
very effective, this requires both that the techniques and the teacher are

Perhaps the most important matter is to take what you find most effective and
use it to help you. If Recoil and Larkin got a lot of value and good results
from the Bad Boy workshop then I say well done for getting the balls and the
money together to take the workshop. If you have been stuck for ages and
nothing else is working for you then keep searching for the missing parts to
your game. That’s what Morals are doing when they seek out and take a workshop.

There is a related issue here for me to address and it is about the need for
constant self-improvement. Now we are getting into the realm of the Demi-Gods.
What Recoil and Larkin had going for them before the Bad Boy workshop was a lot
of conflicting knowledge and a myriad of systems to fathom out, some of them
complimentary to each other and some less so. I have met these two guys in the
field and realised that they had a lot of ASF theory in their heads but they
were not putting it into action. All the theory in the world is great but not
useful a jot in moving you forward in the real world unless you put it into
practice. They couldn’t see the forest for the trees everywhere. Following the
workshop Recoil even said that some of the ASF “taken for granted” wisdom might
be erroneous. I don’t want to get into things that specific in this post
though. Let’s stay with the wider picture here and leave those other issues for
other posts and posters to discuss. That’s something Bad Boy workshop attendees
might want to debate elsewhere.

It seems to me that Recoil and Larkin got two main things out of the workshop.
One was they were put into the field and made to see that sarging can be great
fun if you come at it from the right frame. Bad Boy was able to get them over
their fear of approaching. They’d tried to get over it themselves but hadn’t
been able to. Bad Boy was able to get them into the field and meeting people.
The second thing he seems to have done for them is to “purify” what is useful
from the teachings on ASF. This is the more important issue in the grander
scheme of PUA related things. I’ll go into it here:

I am sure most of us will agree that there are some good posts on mASF and that
there are also posts that can be considered chaff, if not deliberately
misleading. Bad Boy seems to have been able to impart to them a system or a way
of looking at the world that cuts through a lot of the intricacies and gets
them back to basics. What the workshop attendees needed was not a newer, faster
and slicker model of seduction. They needed the basic ability to go in and meet
people without having to rely on advanced methods. I can’t say what he taught
them because I wasn’t there. Recoil or Larkin or Bad Boy will have to comment
on that if they so wish.

Let us go back to the self-improvement issue. For people who are good in some
areas and who, over time, have developed their own methods that work for them
(Demi-Gods) there is sometimes the need or the pressure to keep trying new
methods and techniques in order to fine tune and improve their game to an even
higher level. Some of that mindset might stem from the culture we are steeped
in that says “more is better”. Some one is always selling something newer and
better. In some cases what is being sold is actually an improvement, sometimes
not. Read on for what this means in the world of incorporating new PU

Personally, I was never a total natural but I was not someone who was lacking
confidence. I had my own methods and was getting results with them. I know
there are areas I could improve on, but overall, from studying ASF I developed
my own way of working, a way that took the basic techniques of ASF in the late
1990s and incorporated them into my usual way of operating. Read that last
sentence again, it is important.

The techniques that I learned to integrate worked well for me because they were
congruent with what I was already doing. I didn’t have to incorporate a totally
new system into what I was doing. It was more like I was organising my game at
the time into a more structured way of operating. I’d never formally thought
about Mystery’s FMAC formula before I come across ASF. I’d known it
instinctively but had never thought about it in a logical and concrete way. So
bringing that into what I was doing helped shape my game up. The three seconds
rule was another big discovery and later, getting talkative. So many of these
incorporations were due to Mystery and all credit to him for the way he has
elaborated on the structure and nuances of the game. I remember reading his
“Statistics of the Hunt” post and being blown away. It was so simple, apt and

The point here I am making is I didn’t have to become someone I was not
already. I didn’t have to start learning a new “alien” system, alien in the
sense that it was totally different to how I saw the world and was operating
anyway (however neg theory was totally new to me back in the late 1990s). I
think Recoil and Larkin tried to learn Tyler’s material and to be effective
with his material but they first needed to have the congruency and success base
to operate from. They needed the basics. If you can’t do the basics then trying
to build advanced techniques on such a foundation is like building on sand at
high tide.

I have always aimed for self-improvement in all areas of my life. It gives life
some spice or extra interest if you can learn from your mistakes and try to
hone your techniques while perhaps add in new ones. When I experimented with
Tyler’s techniques I found some of them worked for me and some didn’t. The ball
busting I found works well with some kinds of chicks but I also learned to
calibrate and not go in with C&F busting as a pre-requisite technique, which I
found fucked things up for me quite a bit. It has its place in my game but I
learned not to use it as my lead. It is tool in my bag of tricks that can be
brought out when appropriate. The gay stuff I have dropped because I couldn’t
get it working for me. The chicks thought I was gay for sure but they tended to
think I really was fucking gay and they wouldn’t believe me when I told them I
wasn’t. The gay issue seemed to take over the entire sarge even when I told
them I was faking it. Tyler tells me there is a way to get it working to my
advantage but, as of a couple of months ago, I decided to give it a miss.

What I want to point out here are the risks of trying to incorporate into a
decent game new and alien material. If you are trying to improve something that
is already working quite well for you by introducing something into your game
that is not “you” yet (and I do agree one can barrel through these changes and
learn to make them “you”), then you risk unbalancing what is already working
for you. The risk is that in the quest for constant self-improvement you bring
in changes that are going to interrupt what you are already doing and knock
your game off track somewhat.

In mentioning how Mystery influenced me earlier in this post, I pointed out
that what I learned from Mystery was not alien to me. I was already doing many
of the things he wrote about but I was doing them in an unsystematic way. The
streamlining I got from reading ASF back in the late 1990s gave me a more
rounded way of working as well as fine tuning some of the stuff I was already
doing. What I got back then was not an array of totally new concepts which I
had to struggle to bring on board and bring into operation in the field. I was
able to take those late 1990s learnings and put them into practice quickly and
easily because what I was already doing tied in well and easily. They were
largely congruent with what I was doing to begin with.

It seems to me that in trying to learn Tyler’s techniques I was knocked off
balance in trying to learn new techniques that were not congruent with what I
was already doing quite well. In my attempt to improve myself all the time I
was willing to test out new techniques in the hope of pushing my game higher
and higher. I wonder now if that was really necessary. I think at the start and
middle of last year my game was at its best.

Those of you who met me at the start and middle of last year have told me that
my game was better back then than it was by the autumn. They said to drop the
fake gay and the backturns and go back to the Talk Show Host persona that was
going so well for me before. Rubber said that, Recoil said that, and I agree
with them; they winged me in 2002 and throughout 2003. I think of that phrase
“If it ain’t broke then don’t try to fix it.” That is fine to say with
hindsight. The danger is if you aren’t on the path to continuous
self-improvement you can get stale (or is that the path of not practising and
oiling your machine rather than trying to improve it?) or you can miss out on
new things which could help your game.

It comes down to this - you don’t know if they will help unless you try them.
But trying them might mean you unbalance what you have already got working well
for you. Catch 22 of sorts. It’s like doing the Rubik’s Cube and having 3 or 4
faces all finished with the right colours and having to decide if you are going
to risk messing up those completed faces in order to get the whole cube done.
It’s not a perfect analogy I know, but it might help some people see what I am
saying more clearly.

For naturals (Bad Boy perhaps) their game is already good and interfering with
it dramatically is not worth doing. They are not going to gain a massive
improvement in their game by taking on a whole new system that they aren’t used
to. So, for naturals there is little incentive to drop what they are doing and
to start something really different. The naturals, the Gods of PU – they are
doing well to begin with and their system works brilliantly for them a lot of
the time. They are fine-tuning their game or oiling the machine for the rewards
that the game offers.

For the Demi-Gods and Mortals there is something to be potentially lost as well
as gained in trying new methods that are pretty different to what we have been
used to doing. The potential of loss can be greater for the Demi-Gods who have
more to unbalance. For the Mortals there is less to knock askew to begin with,
so the attempt to incorporate alien materials offers more potential benefit
than potential loss; with the Mortals it can often be a case of “Things can
only get better.” - go ahead and play with the Rubik’s Cube, you might get one
or two faces done!

Demi-Gods have more faces of the Rubik’s Cube completed successfully. What
does the wise Demi-God do? Does he rest on his laurels up in PUA Demi-God
heaven? Does he decide to drop what he is doing so as to experiment with a new
system that might bring big rewards or might not (and might mess up his
semi-finished Rubik’s Cube?) Does he decide to just streamline what he is doing
by making sure to kino more and close more aggressively when he gets those
familiar IOIs?

And to return to the case of the Bad Boy workshop attendees, it seems to me
that they have found something that they can use as a solid base upon which to
build. They are no longer wandering around on a foggy beach trying to build
sandcastles. A role model and seeing really good game in action is likely to
have an uplifting experience on a Mortal. It blows apart their limiting frame
of what is possible and can make the world seem like a wondrous place.

That leaves us with the Demi-Gods. What are they to do with themselves? Do they
fine tune their reasonable machines? Do they try change from Williams to
Ferrari and risk not being able to control the new vehicle?

I don’t know what the sure-fire answer is. After all, I am not omnipotent or

"Respect the cock! And TAME the cunt! TAME it!"

Stevie PUA


Unless otherwise noted, this article is Copyright©2004 by "stevie_pua" with implicit permission provided to for reproduction. Any other use is prohibited without the explicit permission of the original author.


 Learn The Skills StoreStore