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MVET: Mutual Value Escalation Theory

mASF post by zarathustra_fi

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MVET: Mutual Value Escalation Theory
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mASF post by "zarathustra_fi"
posted on: mASF forum: Advanced Discussion, April 4, 2005

On 4/7/05 5:33:00 AM, Dimitri wrote:

this is a really awesome post. I am soon posting about "the battle of values
between sexes" in Relationships. I have been thinking many of the things you
write here about. So I wish to comment your post.


>Solution III: Increase BOTH of
>your value simultaneously.

Yes, very important!

I think I have been doing this instinctively since young as a natural. Also we
are very good friends with women down there in Italy and it came to me
"natural" (LOL) to see women as good friends and not only as sex objects.

I see this in a dynamic way. I mean I believe there is a continuous "battle for
value" between genders which goes on far after the sarge and the first sexual

>Okay, back to our first
>illustration. Guy is a "7",
>girl is an "8.5". The guy
>could use negs, social proof,
>takeaways, and such to
>decrease her value
>situationally to "7.5" and
>increase his value to an "8".
>Then, some logistics, some
>more gaming, some of this and
>that and ideally he beds her.
>But he's bedding a woman whose

Yes, I have been thinking a lot about this Game-Induced LSE syndrome. In a way
some of the means we use can induce a LSE state in chicks who were otherwise
before of better self-esteem and status.

Anyway I find difficult to calibrate this because I feel that most of the women
are actively "trying hard" even more than guys in putting their status down..

>He's bedding a 7.5. Now, if
>he's a really cool guy
>otherwise, but might not
>appear so on a first glance,
>maybe she'll keep perceiving
>him at a high level when she
>snaps out of the need for
>validation trance. But if it's
>all just been a front, guess
>what? She's going to start
>seeing herself as better than
>you soon enough, and it's time
>for all hell to break loose.

Depends. In the case she is HSE the guy may succeed in the meanwhile to
establish a good emotional contact with her. And if she appreciates him (as
many women do) for other value than only visual then things can be very good.
As a matter of fact many PUAs from this history (for example Italian Gabriele
D´Annunzio, or Napoleon, or Voltaire) were actually very ugly. If she is LSE he
may succeed in having her down regularly.. so keeping the balance on his favor.

That came anyway can´t go on for long without someone getting hurt, especially
with LSE.

>This is a large cause of why
>some night game that's
>successful at "putting numbers
>on the scoreboard" is terrible
>at making loyal, solid,
>dependable girls. And many of
>these same guys rant about how
>worthless women are! When
>they're damaging the goods
>before they take it!
>Go figure!

Yes, there is a Game-Induced LSE!

>Instead, realize that you have
>the power to make any girl
>better than what she is,
>simply by virtue of being with
>you, being connected to you,
>being in your presence or even
>able to communicate some with
>you. She can feel more sexy,
>more intelligent, solve
>problems more easily, be more
>dedicated, be more rational,
>and so on.

This is the IDEAL situation and I believe that the most intelligent and
sensitive PUAs are able to do this but you need SPECIAL WOMEN to be able to get
this, with very good self-esteem.


>You make her into a 9.5. Who
>is that dependant on? YOU! She
>feels stronger, smarter, more
>confident, more socially
>savvy, more beautiful, and
>more powerful around you.
>Without you, she can't have
>that. What does that do for
>your value?

Of course it raises guy´s value!

>10/10, gentlemen. When you
>deliver a compliment well
>(that's where the game comes
>in), you increase your value
>and hers... and yours MORE.

That´s true, when framed in the right way and in non supplicant way, yes.

For example when the guy absolutely dominates her sexually and emotionally and
is always one step ahead in the "battle of values" then if he says
genuinely:"You really are a hot woman!" he is raising actually his own value
while raising hers.

>There's an art to this, of
>course. It's possible to give
>a compliment that's
>supplicative. That raises her
>value a tiny bit, and lowers
>yours a lot. Same with
>perceived supplication.

Yes, so this is a fine art. I generally use very quick mixed compliments where
I both raise and lower her value rapidly if she shit tests me after the
compliment. They can do that out of the blue.. and they can be very smart ..

This one happened with my wife couple of months ago. She was in front of the
mirror and she likes to admire herself a lot. As I have well established
dominance frame on her I gave her a compliment:

Franco:"Yes.. You really look nice.. Wonderful woman" (raising her value)
Wife:(giggles and gives shit test)"Yes.. I must KEEP YOU ALWAYS WITH ME!" -
AFCs would have no clue about what she was doing here but this is a value
lowering shit test which means:"I will have you always with me supplicating
with compliments" (that´s why I say that with women is like in the jungle)

Well with me it is not easy.. I call her close to me.. (she was using a cream
on herself). I smell the cream. And NEG the shit out of her..

Franco:"Listen, this cream seems to be fit on you but I find that the smell is
little bit too sharp for your personality.. okay, maybe it´s ok on you.."
(value lowering)
Wife:(shocked, qualifying herself) "Noo... I have the good creams at home..
this is not the best one!".. follow lot of explanations about the different
creams she has..:)(value lowered, she tried to kick my ass and was kicked..:)

Great fuck that evening!

>imagine, if you will, that a
>Tom Cruise-esque guy walks up
>to a girl, looks deeply into
>her eyes, and tells her that
>she carries herself so
>gracefully that he had to come
>speak with her. Guess what?
>She's positively glowing, and
>his value has only gotten

Yes, and she may shit test him afterwards like my wife did.. My wife dumped lot
of men with lot of money who were supplicating to her before she met me.. last
evening she told me that many of them when they were talking about sport cars
were telling to her:"Yes..You are the kind of woman who could be perfect on a
sport car.. You would be gorgeous" (obviously without having established a
dominance frame on her)

She went on telling me:"I felt they were not right about me.. I am the kind of
woman who wants a big family.. large house.. big garden.. close to the sea.."

Those guys were shoot down. No matter how much money they had..

So maybe Tom Cruise would better learn that game? I mean what really happened
to OJ Simpson and why he was ending up on the electric chair? Did his wife
lower his value in spite of all his money???

This is a longer post. I stop here. Get back soon to the rest.

Online Seduction School for Single Men, Husbands & Players

"Sarge Est Necesse, Vivere Necesse Non Est " Gnaeus Pompeius, revised

>And if you're picking up
>everyone around you, you're
>getting social proofed too.
>Higher social status. More
>people want to be around you.
>It's cyclical.
>Sure. When saying or doing
>anything in the game, be
>ORIENTED. That means, do what
>you feel, and shrug at what
>happens. When the night is
>over, it's good to
>analytically look at what
>happened, and adjust. Maybe
>even take a couple minutes
>while you're in the men's room
>to think over how things have
>been going. But instead of
>taking a technical aspect,
>it's important to bring what
>you feel, and what you want.
>That means go with what you
>want to go with, not what
>you've been told to go with.
>If any given
>er gets negative results, you
>shrug at the moment, because
>you did the process as best as
>you could. You improve the
>process later, as you can, but
>in the moment, you live it and
>love it. And that shrug if
>someone disapproves is usually
>enough to make it glaze over
>and no matter, anyway.
>Deliver everything from a
>position of power and
>authority. When you state
>something that you think, your
>position isn't going to change
>based on what they think or
>say. So you give a girl a
>compliment on her
>rhetro-yellow skirt. She says
>she hates it but has nothing
>else to wear. You shrug, or
>maybe say, "Meh, I still like
>it" and keep going. You don't
>take back what you've said,
>because it's true. Likewise,
>if she starts glowing, you
>don't go on and on about it:
>You've said what you have to
>say, now keep moving. The
>authority part means you're
>not tentative. If you give her
>a compliment, you might leave
>a normal social pause in there
>to see if she thanks you or
>says something in particular,
>but after that half-second or
>so, you just do/say what you
>want to. You don't stand and
>wait for her to decide what
>she wants to do with you.
>Judging: Everyone judges all
>the time, whether they admit
>it or not. Even a person who
>prides themself on being
>non-judgmental still makes
>spot assessments of everything
>they see. Well, I say take it
>to the forefront. Be conscious
>of the fact that you're always
>judging, and do so. It's what
>the concept of screening is
>all about: And I don't mean
>pretending to screen. See if
>she's what you actually want.
>Practice is great and all, but
>at some point, you gotta start
>getting what you want and
>So far, we've covered the
>basic mindsets and attitudes
>of Mutual Value Escalation.
>You come from a position of
>power and authority,
>objectively realize and
>consciously judge her actions
>to see if you like her and
>what she's doing, and then you
>stay process oriented: You
>don't let what others think/do
>affect you if you're giving it
>your best.
>There's a lot of rude people
>in the world. If I had to
>guess, I'd say there's
>probably an equal number of
>rude men and rude women, but
>in a lot of western countries,
>you see blatant disrespect by
>women to a lot of men.
>So, you're out in the club,
>you see a girl wearing a
>ruby-colored, shimmering red
>dress. Long, soft blond hair
>and a pearl necklace framing
>her perfect neck. You go to
>talk to her, and she's rude!
>What has she done? Well, if
>she wants you (and she will
>soon if not already, my
>friends, rest assured) she's
>played shitty game. But you
>can't blame her, Cosmo and The
>Rules are really the blind
>leading the blind.
>She doesn't know any better.
>Someone would do well to point
>her to my MVETheory, but in
>the meantime, you'd better
>deal with this.
>Take no disrespect! When a
>girl disrespects you, it's her
>trying to raise her value a
>bit by slamming yours.
>Instead, you assume your value
>is still where it's at, and
>that hers is SEVERELY
>decreased by her disrespect.
>Then treat her appropriately.
>Like, if you can, imagine the
>9 that just said some rude
>shit to transform into a 4,
>and it's a rabidly ugly drunk
>girl that's talking shit. In
>this case, you'd probably
>Turn your back to her? Tell
>her that she's rude? Laugh and
>make fun of her? Roll your
>eyes and look at her like a
>little child?
>Ignore her entirely?
>If a woman is willing, I'll
>take her and me to new heights
>together. We'll thrive
>together in a partnership, and
>if she measures up, a
>relationship. Sometimes we'll
>make love, sometimes we'll
>have sex, sometimes we'll get
>down and dirty and fuck real
>nasty. We'll have great
>conversations, do fun things,
>and both learn more about
>ourselves. We'll see sunsets
>and sunrises and I'll show her
>things she's never seen
>before, and I'll learn
>everything I can from her.
>But not if she wants to be a
>snotty little bitch. There's,
>quite literally, a line of
>girls that are begging for my
>attention, my affection, my
>love. So if one girl can't
>realize what I'm worth, she'd
>better get in line ASAP.
>So take it as a severe knock
>on her value. Many people,
>when faced with someone being
>hard to get or disrespectful,
>want to prove to that person
>that they like them. Wrong
>So, after she's disrespectful
>to you, you either "neg" her,
>as appropriate, or maybe
>dismiss her entirely in favor
>of better girls. If she was
>not being entirely attentive,
>then it might be time to tease
>her a little. If she was
>downright fucking rude, then
>it might be time to tell her
>straightup, "Hey, I was just
>being social, having a
>conversation, and that was
>rude. But... have a nice
>Because, quite frankly, I
>don't need to. Have you ever
>seen an old, black and white
>movie, with a man playing a
>manly actor telling a woman
>that she's so beautiful and
>they'd be perfect for each
>other. Lots of times, the girl
>melts for him on the spot.
>Sometimes, she doesn't. But if
>she fires something at him
>sarcastically, he always
>shoots right back with
>something clever about how
>she's blowing her chances.
>AND, it would presuppose that
>I need to neg, which I don't.
>This all goes back to
>having/being a high value
>person. I come in assuming I'm
>already supremely high value,
>but that's another topic for
>another time.
>Don't try to cut women down so
>you're better than them.
>Instead, lead them and make
>people around you better
>people. You can do this by
>encouraging them,
>complimenting them when they
>do well, and disciplining them
>when they fail.
>You assume a high value, and
>you create even more by this
>attitude. Really, everyone you
>meet will be picked up a bit,
>and become a better person if
>they work with you. If they
>work against you, they go from
>having you in their corner to
>you judging them harshly: And
>they see that you're solid in
>heart and mind, so they just
>made a huge mistake. The vast,
>vast majority of the time,
>this is enough to correct the
>behavior and not have it
>around you. It doesn't mean
>that you'll get any one,
>individual woman, but it does
>mean that you'll constantly
>have attractive women that are
>loyal to you and good people
>around you. It'll also make
>you have more friends and more
>loyal friends, as well as more
>contacts, acquaintances, and
>so on.
>Without being too sappy,
>trying to leave everyone you
>find a little better off makes
>you a LOT better off, and
>people will follow your lead.
>If someone is disrespectful,
>you don't tolerate it: You see
>if they'll fix their behavior,
>and it's sayanora if they
>Feel free to add more thoughts
>and technique, my friends.
>This avenue of game has been
>around forever, and it's the
>most successful model of
>leadership and playing the
>game. Just because it hasn't
>been talked about in this way
>before en masse shouldn't stop
>you from logically thinking it
>out and realizing that you
>know lots of people who do
>this and are successful with
>it. Chip in some thoughts, and
>let the discussion grow.
>Always yours,

Unless otherwise noted, this article is Copyright©2005 by "zarathustra_fi" with implicit permission provided to for reproduction. Any other use is prohibited without the explicit permission of the original author.


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