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State-Seduction Frames

mASF post by mimicker

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State-Seduction Frames
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mASF post by "mimicker"
posted on: mASF forum: General Discussion newsgroup, August 8, 2004

This post is by one of my wings, cramias. I think it could help a lot of
people, so he has allowed me to repost it here on mASF.... Discussion is

"I gave a long presentation on the concept of frames and how they affect you as
you progress up the learning curve at the last lair meeting. I got a few
private messagess that this was a useful thing for people, so I am posting a
general outline of what I talked about. I don't have a great deal of time so
this is not very well organized. If parts of this post are confusing, just
point them out and I will attempt to clarify. I'd also be interested in hearing
anyone's thoughts or feedback about this stuff, even if it is on the negative

Background-Around April of this year, I hit a "wall" of sorts and stopped going
out entirely for 3-4 weeks. Prior to this, I was out in the field frequently,
and was breaking through barriers that had kept me stuck for years. So this was
an extremely frustrating obstacle to run into. One day I took the time to
analyze why I had stopped, and break down in my journal what the difference was
between the times I was rocking with the PUA material, and the times when I was
experiencing a lot of frustration and deadends. What emerged from this was a
delineation of different seduction frames. Since I started thinking along these
lines, I have found it much easier to keep myself motivated, and spring back
quickly from setbacks. I have made an absolutely unbelievable amount of
progress in the last 3 months, and I attribute it partially to my understanding
of frames.

Framing is not a new concept, of course. However, most of what has been written
about frames with regards to seduction revolves around the frames you set with
the girl you are interacting with. What I am referring to in this specific post
is the frame you set between you and the science of seduction. The attitude and
approach you take towards learning the Venusian Arts. It makes things massively
easier and FASTER if you take a useful frame towards seduction, and more
importantly, avoid "trap frames." What I've found is that when I've had an off
night, I can almost always boil it down into having fallen into one of the trap
frames. Even more usefully, when I am having an off night, I can sometimes take
a few minutes to figure out which unuseful frame I've fallen into, and often
reset from the trap frame to the right frame in the field. It is a very helpful
tool in my experience.

So following are the notes that I used to make my presentation to the lair. I
don't claim to be any sort of expert, this is just stuff that I've noticed
within my own field experience, and that I find useful in dealing with my own
inner game» issues. The trap frames come first, followed at the end by what I
believe to be the most useful frame.

"I'm going to go out and get 5 numbers/make out with a girl/get laid tonight."
-Leads to skipping skill building steps (ie, so focused on getting a kiss that
you fail to lay proper groundwork that will actually lead to a kiss, and
instead creep a girl out by phaseshifting too soon)
-Leads to inflexibility (what happens if you go out with a goal of getting
phone numbers, and meet a girl who wants a fuck that night?)
-Count yourself out of opportunities for practice, that might even lead to
something worthwhile (ie "she's a bitch" "she's too ugly" "she's with that guy,
its her BF")
-If you have a basic, low-percentage skillset, say PUing girls from the
dancefloor, you may fall into the trap of just reusing it over and over
(because it does get SOME results, and you are focused on results), instead of
taking the time to develop a more complex and ultimately more complete skillset
-Can be extremely frustrating and demoralizing if you are setting goals that
are unrealistic given your current skills

"I'm going to go out and have fun, and maybe something will happen"
-Very common AFC frame for going to bars, because it is socially acceptable and
requires no thought
-Noniniative, require the girls or circumstance to make things happen
-Gives the selection power to the girls
-Ultimately spend majority of time talking to your social circle friends and on
"death row" (death row = look around typical bar, and you will see many males
standing around with their drinks in the defensive position. All of these guys
are thinking "maybe if I stand here long enough, something will happen.")
-Usually I drink too much when I find myself falling into this frame
-If you want results, you MUST make things happen
-This is a chick frame, and one that there is a lot of social programming for
men to accept (ie just be yourself). Men are expected to initiate, so girls can
pull this frame off. It doesn't work for guys.

"If other people think I am a PUA, then I am a PUA."
-Basically, it is looking to gain other's validation for your skills, rather
than measuring your skills by the responses and results you get, and by the
progress you make through your sticking points.
-Leads to being bold instead of confident (can say something really bold and it
will impress a guy, but won't get you shit for results with the girl)
-Also, can lead to not following through on prospects after the first night
-How to tell if you are falling into this frame: find yourself qualifying
yourself to wings, if you do approaches because the set is in front of others,
if you get off on AFCs complimenting your PU skills or get nervous when you are
around a PUA who you perceive as more skilled than you, if you use the phrases
"I'm tired, this bar sucks, I never do well at X-Bar, I'm drunk, I'm not on
tonight, I'm not feeling it tonight"

"I'm good at this"
-Ego Protection mechanism.
-Once you've reached a certain level of competence, you will most likely have
an image of yourself as being good with women. This is useful for generating
confidence, but it can also lead to a rather subtle trap.
-I find that when I am feeling really arrogant and confident about my skills, I
will often go out and do VERY FEW approaches. This baffled me when I first ran
into it. Eventually, I figured out that the self-image I had was over-important
to me, and I was concerned about putting that image on the line and possibly
having a set that destroyed that image (and destroyed my confidence by proxy)
-This is also the frame that keeps people stuck in keyboard jockey-dom. They
read all this brilliant shit online, and say "now that I know all of this, I
will do amazingly well with girls." Then they get out in the field and are
unwilling to try anything cause they don't want to jeapordize their new
-This is also the frame that leads to SPs-getting stuck at the same point in
your game over and over. Relate to self-current biggest SP is kino. I've
realized that I keep getting stuck here because I hate the idea of destroying
attraction/creeping a girl out because my kino skills are not yet smooth. I
have good verbal skills, and it feels validating that I can generate attraction
so quickly (especially given my background of scarcity/poverty with women). I
am reluctant to give up the validation that I am getting by rolling out a new
skillset that is not polished yet.
-Easiest way out of this frame is to realize that 1-You have to be bad before
you can be good (videogame metaphor), and 2-Confidence really comes from the
belief that you are DESERVING of the PUA lifestyle, even if your skills are not
yet that polished. Even a flawed diamond is a precious thing. Eradicate the
competence = confidence meme from your head.

"I'll try this stuff, but I'm only going to do techniques that feel 'safe' to
-Failure to expand comfort zone
-Leads to different behaviors depending on your skill level- Only doing social
circle sarging; only doing "normal" approaches like "Hi how are you?"; Using
the AFC Questions Routine (what do you do, where you from, etc) to try to make
the girl do the work for you; not doing approaches in front of people you know
or old sets; Only approaching Bs or UGs; not doing kino, feeling that you NEED
a wing with you; avoiding the hi-stimulus venues in favor of smaller places;
ejecting too early; Approaching only all-female sets; not doing the AMOG
-A larger pattern I've seen is that a lot of people, when they first start this
stuff, will say that they are looking for techniques/routines/etc that "fit
their style." The problem with this approach to seduction is that
transformation and a change of identity is essentially the core of becoming a
PUA. If you are not willing to experiment with unfamiliar styles, then you will
see only incremental changes in your results rather than dramatic ones.
-Reframe: When I read some technique that sound like it won't work, I get
EXCITED. Because if the person who posted it is a good PUA, it generally means
that they are operating on some level of awareness that is not yet on my radar.
And I know that if I go out and try the technique (and give it a fair shake,
not just do it once or twice and give up), I am very likely to reach some new
level of understanding myself.

-The right frame for me is the **LEARNING FRAME**
-Focus on building your skillset...results will come as a byproduct of this
-Focus on getting outside of your comfort zone and learning NEW skills. What
have you never tried to do? Go do it.
-Have a willingness to experiment with things that sound a bit off. Realize
that with each new skill, there will be a period of adjustment in which the
results you get will be all over the map. Your game has to be sloppy before it
can be tight.
-Allows you to not attach much importance to any one outcome. A byproduct of
this is that the process becomes REALLY fun. Its hard to get frustrated when
you don't really care what happens, as long as you are trying.
-This mindset completely eliminates the existence of failure. If your goal is
to range one specific routine (for example), then as long as you have deployed
the routine, you have succeeded, regardless of the response. You should still
be paying attention to the response though. With the learning frame, every
"rejection" is automatically reframed as a rejection of your use of your
skillset in this particular instance, NOT a rejection of you as a person. The
only way to fail is to not try.
-One caveat. If you are correctly using the learning frame, you should be
trying your level best with every single set. If you are giving less than 100%
effort in a set, the feedback you get is going to be inaccurate. You will be
unable to judge whether the poor response was due to an integral flaw in the
techniques you were using, or due to the way you used them. If you are going to
use the learning frame, you have to commit to putting forth your best possible
effort every time.


"Every moment passing by is another chance to change the rest of your life."

Unless otherwise noted, this article is Copyright©2004 by "mimicker" with implicit permission provided to for reproduction. Any other use is prohibited without the explicit permission of the original author.


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