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Why “Fool‘s Mate” is Bullshit

mASF post by tigger

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Why “Fool‘s Mate” is Bullshit
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mASF post by "tigger"
posted on: mASF forum: Advanced Discussion, March 3, 2004

On 3/23/04 5:22:00 PM, Mystery wrote:

Mystery, thanks for the reply. comments below

Let me further define the
>issue of what fool's mate
>means. There are 3 stages to a
>full monty (that is why my
>method is called M3) ... from
>meet to sex. they are ATTRACT
>--> COMFORT --> SEDUCE. Pretty
>simple so far. But some guys
>begin at the end (SEDUCE)!
>Here is an excerpt from my
>upcoming book:
>M3 Sequencing Mistake # 1: To
>Begin at The End
>The Seducer
>The most common error
>beginners make is to focus on
>seducing a woman first instead
>of attracting her. This is
>like putting the cart before
>the horse.

Ok I can agree that this may be a mistake a lot of beginners make. It's also a
way that lots of guys use to get girls consistently. It's also something that a
lot of the super experienced guys like yourself seem to forget about, and NEVER
use during pickups even when the possibility is there.

Often, to beautiful
>women in particular, seduction
>first is little more than the
>equivalent of saying, "You
>don't know me but will you
>sleep with me?" There is a
>time (and a place) to begin
>the seduction stage, but it's
>not until you first have
>attraction and comfort (as
>well as privacy).

sure, this is probably true for MOST girls. I'm simply saying to be open to
those girls that do want to begin at the "seduction" stage...and there are
plenty of those out there too.

>Fool's Mate
>In the game of chess, it is
>possible to win in only three
>moves. This gambit is called
>fool's mate. Winning with
>speed via fool's mate does not
>however make you a chess

Hmmm, ok. I'm not claiming it makes a person a champion, but that it is there
on a regular basis...this possibility is not something that happens so
infrequently that it should be disregarded.

If anything, it only
>demonstrates your opponent's

or his experience in being able to use different methods, or realize those
times when it's possible to go into the "seduction" process way earlier than

An experienced
>chess player will not even
>attempt a fast fool's mate
>for, if the opponent doesn't
>take the bait, he leaves the
>player in a weak position.

Ok, for chess, yeah, it would be stupid. But we're talking about girls, not
chess here. And if you can see right from the beginning or make one move and
gauge her, and see if this is the type of girl who will be receptive to
beginning at the "seductive" stage, then that would be a pretty smart path to
follow, wouldnt it.

>Similarly, while it is
>possible to seduce with speed,
>it is much less probable on a
>woman who is socially
>experienced. You'll know pretty quick whether that's the case or not. If you can
see that it's not possible with her, then don't start at the seduction stage.

In the venusian
>arts, we refer to seduction
>first tactics as fool's mate
>for the metaphorical
>similarity. Instead, both
>chess champions and venusian
>artists prefer to play a solid

lol, that's a funny term. I guess I'm not so refined, and prefer to think of it
is as "pickup."

>One tactic a seducer will
>employ is to shamelessly pray
>on a lot of women.

Yep, there are plenty of these guys too, who hop from one girl to the next,
hoping to find one that will bite. And some of these guys, even the average
looking ones, are really quite good at hooking up this way. But this has
nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
There are plenty of guys who have taken your(you, and the RSD guys) workshops,
who approach set after set after set. What's so different about what they're
doing? So what you're saying is that it's okay to "shamelessly pray on a lot of
women" if it's under the guise of "solid game," but that it's WRONG and poor
game if you "shamelessly pray on a lot of women" by being upfront, and
seductive and sexual right from the beginning?

Oh ok, now I understand where you're coming from---only one way to do
it---"solid game." Everything else sucks, right? It's not valid or credible?
It's "fools mate"?
This is what either you don't see or that you don't want to acknowledge because
it ruines your argument---that there is a SPECTRUM. This whole thing isn't
black and white. Mystery, you make it sound like there are only two types of
PUAs out there, those with "solid game" like yourself, and those that start at
the "seduction" end of the game (these guys being not credible to you).
The whole point of my post wasn't to say that what you are doing is wrong. Hell
I've seen the pictures. I've heard the stories. I'm damn impressed. One of my
points is to say that the average dude out there can get laid by dropping all
this material for a bit and trying out some new things, to stop WORSHIPPING you
guys to such a degree that they flat out refuse to try or even acknowledge that
other ways exist. And most of the guys here are just normal dudes trying to get
with girls they think are cute or hot...they aren't exposed to SHB10s regularly
so it's retarded for them to be limiting themselves to just your material when
approaching a 7. And you yourself say that your methods are for the extrememly
beautiful anyways. Well you don't need to limit yourself to such methods on the
8s and 9s...and we all want those girls too. Mystery, we all know you don't
restrict yourself to just 10s. But you are able to adjust for the different
levels. Guys who can't even deliver the routines properly, the ones who try
your routines over and over yet can't get nearly the reactions you get have no
chance at being able to adjust for the different levels of girls.

Another point I was making is that if you are aware of when a girl is open for
beginning at the "seduction" stage, then you will have good results by just
getting sexual with her and getting in there, rather than trying to run "solid
game" on her, which will probably just fuck up the sarge with her. I'm not
advising people to start jumping from one woman to the next trying to find the
bar slut, and using this as their regular method.

Though the
>percentage of winning the game
>via fool's mate is small, a
>seducer may ensure at least
>some success if he simply hits
>on enough women.

um yeah ok.Anyone may ensure at least some success if he hits on enough women.
Including your(you and RSD guys)methods. It's not like some of you guys aren't
approaching set after set after set. I posted last year something along the
lines how at workshops, there might be one or two lays for the whole weekend,
usually by the instructors, and that the overall number of approaches is in the
hundreds for the group as a whole, and in the dozens for the instructors.
Granted, I know you are there to teach and not just go for lays, but let's face
it, your "solid game" doesn't exactly result in 100% (or even 50%, or even
25%)lay rate does it. And that's for you, the master.

These guys who are new, or even more experienced guys, who get hooked on this
one method of doing things, and forget that there is more than one way to skin
a cat, don't sarge 4 days a week, don't have nearly as strong a personality as
you, don't have nearly the same exposure to the SHBs. How do you think their
rates are? Maybe 1%. So they shamelessly pray on girl after girl as well. And
probably some of those girls they could have laid if they recognized those
girls who are open to a quicker seduction, dropped the games for a minute and
focused on getting sexual or isolating early on.

With fool's
>mate as his only “winning
>move”, he will have to live
>with a reputation for being
>rejected by many women.

hmmm. yeah but your workshop attendees who run "solid game"---they never have
this problem do they??? They don't get accused of being fake or rehearsed do
they? They don't have girls say "weren't you the guy I met last month? You
asked me that same question!"

Really, Mystery, how many of the guys in the lounge can do what you and TD and
Style can do with women(or at least get sort of close, enough that they get
good results regularly)? A dozen? A couple dozen? Okay, now how many people
have attended your workshops? How many people are there on this board who
haven't attended, and are doing routines and openers horribly wrong?

I'm not dissing your method at all, even if it seems like it. I'm trying to
stress the point that these more average guys need to explore other methods and
stop worshipping you guys while their "game" still sucks ass. I'm saying be
open to the possibility that some girls are already ready to start the pickup
in that "seduction" or sexual stage, and that a lot of girls who aren't ready
can be made ready by using GM or by going in with low sexual undertones and
raising the sexual subcommunication fairly quick.

>The main limitation with
>relying on fool's mate is, the
>more social the woman, the
>less likely it will work.

in general

>Seducers sacrifice their
>freedom of choice and relegate
>themselves to praying on the
>socially inexperienced; girls
>who rarely get approached.

"praying"??? God, it's this kind of choice of words that polarizes your
argument, making it take on the black-and-white frame you sound like you have
of pickup.

>These girls have little choice
>but to settle for the
>uncomfortable advances of the
>typical seducer.

lol. WRONG! "settle"??? "uncomfortable"??? wow, amazing. Again, in the original
post, I talked about THE BIG CALIBRATION!!! I'm not saying go up and make
chicks feel uncomfortable. I'm saying that it's often totally possible to find
out very quickly if a girl is open to that kind of advance. Those that are open
to it are totally comfortable with your advances!

>(or fortunately from a
>Machiavellian point of view),
>this includes preying on the
>young, the lonely, those with
>apparent low self-esteem, the
>anti-social, and the less than

lol. ok, whatever. now you're like falling into your own black and white world
even more strongly. This is how to create hero worshippers.

>Fool's mate can work in some
>situations that may be
>acceptable to you, such as on
>drunk girls and those who have
>a propensity towards having
>one night stands. Just don't
>let it be your only “winning

yeah it can work on normal undrunk girls too!! OMG! Crazy huh? Isn't it also
crazy that your "solid game" can work on those that want ONS too? 7 hours was

>Seducers mistakenly begin at
>the end. Just like any typical
>guy, they often blatantly
>disregard a woman's comfort
>levels entirely.
>typical in this way is
>generally not an attractive

yeah I agree it's not attractive to make women feel uncomfortable. When did I
ever say anything about making women feel uncomfortable? I'm saying look at the
big calibration, try some different methods. Hero worshippers who are not
getting laid after months of practicing RSD/MM stuff SHOULD DEFINITELY TRY SOME
NEW STUFF! Explore being in sexual state more often. This doesn't in and of
itself make a girl uncomfortable, not any more than some guy running up and
running a bunch of routines.

Even if there is a
>level of attraction based on
>the seducer's appearance
>alone, this is superceded by
>her discomfort in having to
>deal with aggressive sexual
>advances from someone she
>doesn’t know nor trust.

WHOAH. When it comes to "aggressive sexual advances," that's when you have to
make sure the girl is in a similar sexual state and wants it and likes it and
reciprocates. I'm not saying to force yourself on unwilling victims. black and
white. black and white. There is an in between too.

It is
>best to not prematurely
>telegraph strong sexual
>interest until end-game.

ok agreed. But how about a fairly healthy level of sexual state at the
beginning and escalate quickly to "end game"?
Unless people can run their game as well as you Mystery, they will have a VERY
difficult time ever getting to that end game where they are able to show sexual
interest. It's best to have or be able to generate some chemistry right at the
beginning. And if you sarge a girl who is open for more than that, then give
her more than that---don't run "sold game" on her for hours if she is ready for
the advanced stages now.

>>What I find so interesting is that Mystery and his camp use HUNDREDS if not
THOUSANDS of little moves.
>Anyone who takes my MM seminar
>will understand the elegance
>of the model. The issue you
>bring up is that of CHUNKING.
>Here's a quick course on it:

thanks for the education.

>try to remember this #:
>hard to remember because there
>are so many small chunks. but
>now lets large chunk it: 365
>1492 314159 2000 ... days in a
>year, when columbus
>'discovered' america, 3.14159
>is pi to 5 decimals and the
>year 2000. easy now, once you
>large chunk the small chunks.
>in the same way there are
>hundreds of things to do when
>driving a car but we let out
>motor response automate the
>reactions for us over repeated
>drives. same here.

ok fair enough. Here's the problem. This automated response you have is
personalized for you. I'm sure you do things you aren't even aware of, and take
for granted. Couple this with your Mystery Method which has a bunch of small
chunks and you end up with some guy trying to mimic this model you have tried
and tested over years. He's trying forever to get it right, not having good end
results, but he is getting girls excited and laughing regularly now at the
beginning...he knows that you follow the method and are banging the playboy
bunnies...he keeps trying...all the time defending the method, praising your
every new post, most of which there is no way he can incorporate congruently
into his "solid game."

I dont
>actually THINK about the
>method as I go. I only think
>it AFTERWARDS to I can do the
>right thing the NEXT time

yeah I wouldn't think you would have to. You've been at this a while and have
built up your method for yourself.

We learn things
>in SMALL CHUNK and then
>automate it and only think in
>large chunks. In fact, when I
>see the woman I let go of
>brain does the work FOR ME.

impressive. Now how can a guy that takes your workshop and learns all these
little chunks ever make it natural. How long would that take him to get to
where he can use big chunks? And then howlong would it take him to where he can
let go of it all and make it second-nature? I bet most of those guys who took
workshop couldn't even write out the chunks on a piece of paper. They could
probably rattle off a bunch of routines and the latest DHVs though. They could
probably walk into a club and have nicknames for everything and think they see
what others can't.

>some of my room mates have
>complained about, I can't NOT
>make a girl attracted to me
>(my attract phase is automated
>- weird). Instead of having to
>go through this trial and
>error, self-correcting loop by
>yourself over ten years like I
>did, you can take a seminar
>and fix all the errors in a
>year like TD did.

oh so just one workshop and I'm as good as you huh? And it only took TD ONE
YEAR? A year of basically dedicating himself to pickup? A year of meeting
several gurus? A year of going out 4-7 days/nights a week? A year of traveling
around hanging out with PUAs, taking workshops? Oh yeah and let's not forget
his ability to analyze things, synthesize different perspectives, and create
material unique to himself. Umm, okay, yeah, all the normal dudes on this board
who are just looking for a girl they can fuck regularly have the time and
ability for that!

>>I think it’s this reason that people worship them: results + knowledge beyond
one’s own. They hear or see or read of the incredible results these guys get
and then they read their analytical posts and can’t understand them, so they
automatically ASSUME everything written is like the holy bible of seduction.
>This is coming from someone
>who has not taken an MM
>seminar, NOR even MET ME. The
>PUA summit is coming up. come
>on down and lets all meet up.

I won't be at the Summit. I do want to meet you, along with a ton of guys on
this board like formhandle, gunwitch, juggler, ijjji, and many others.
And who knows, I may even take a MM workshop. I could learn a lot from you, I
have no doubt about that. But I guarantee that I could never drop what I
already know and become another hero worhsipper because I've had too many
experiences that don't fall in-line with what you teach.

>Maybe, just maybe, there
>really IS something to all
>this. Maybe the hype is TRUE.
>Is it POSSIBLE that someone
>actually FIGURED IT OUT? for
>real this time?

I believe the hype. I believe YOU are that good. I bet most of your workshop
attendees and hero worhsippers on this board suck ass though.

yeah I think you figured out one way, albeit complicated. I don't doubt your

I doubt the abilities of the hero worshippers who praise your every words and
are unable to try other possibilities, methods which are not even difficult to

>>The hero worshippers are unable to critically analyze the information, and
thus unable to apply it correctly.
>the hero worshipping comes
>from those who have MET the
>heros in real life though.
>important distinction.

distinct yeah. hero worshippers none the less. I know you're the real deal man.
But I hardly think you are the ONLY real deal, or that MM/RSD is the ONLY way.

>>Okay but what about those people who have had many lays with girls in well
under the 7 hour mark? (by the way, is any lay short of 7 hours now considered
the official cutoff line between a Fool’s Mate, and “solid game.”)
>take a look at all the lays
>you've had and list how long
>(in accumulated hours) it took
>to full monty each. average
>them out. now add similar data
>from your friends. from other
>puas. from ANYONE. what is the
>AVERAGE of EVERYONE? you can't
>deny the EVIDENCE. I didn't
>pull that # out of my ass. I
>HOURS. can you do it in less?
>sure you can. but sometimes
>its more too. if you rely on
>fool's mate as your only
>winning move (as you claim to)
>you are seriosuly limiting
>yourself. dude. its ONLY 7
>hours (on average).

I don't rely on "fools mate" as my only winning move. Nor did I ever suggest to
anyone to rely on any one way. I said that "fools mate" is horrible term, and
it is. I also said to be aware of the BIG calibration, and that if you are, you
can advance things VERY fast with those girls. I also said to stop hero
worshipping and to try other methods if you aren't getting laid, to stop
playing the peacocking and DHV/canned stuff for just a bit, to try kissing a
girl at the first sign of sexual chemistry, just to try it. I'm not suggesting
a new method. I'm not suggesting to drop MM/RSD. I'm saying be aware of the
bigger picture. I'm saying DON'T LIMIT YOURSELF.

As for the average time for lays, it's ranged between about an hour to months.
Where does the average time end up? I don't know. Let's say it is 7 hours? How
could knowing that figure ever be used practically? It's statistics. so 7 hours
is the mean...but what is the median and mode? Where would it all fall if
graphed? It totally would be irrelevant. So why even talk about it? All 7 hours
does it limit guys to thinking they need one more hour of comfort building or
some shit to reach the mark. Or it makes them ready to next a girl if they go
too much over that point. It's totally worthless, other than just an
interesting little statistic which may or may not be accurate.

>>Hero worshippers and heros, Consider this: What if, just what if, a person
could do with a few seconds of eye contact, a few words, the right body
language, right voice tonality, and right subcommunication, BYPASS 20 of your
stacked openers, 15 of your routines, 6 of your peacocked items, 3 takeaways,
50 C&F lines, and 2 DHVs??? Wow, that would be something wouldn’t it?
>it sure would ... and this
>smacks of an IN-EXPERIENCED
>guy with a wish that strange
>women would just knock on his
>bedroom door and say "hi, Im
>Mercedes, may I come in for a

haha. that would actually be cool, but I HARDLY suggested such. I'm saying that
you can get on a sexual level with girls pretty quick without doing all those
routines and things. And I'm not just talking about looks.

Are you IN the field 4
>nights a week?

nope. 1 or 2 nights a week. Occasionally I'll have spurts of 4 nights a week or
more, but maybe 2-3 times a year. I'm out every day though. My job is a daytime
job. My body can't afford being up 4 nights a week.

what you are
>saying is not REALISTIC.

It is. What you talk about here is so black and white, like MM is the ONLY way,
and everything else is "fools mate" and "praying shamlessly on lonely LSE women
with unwanted aggressive sexual advances making them uncomfortable." I was
mostly writing that first post for the hero worshippers, as I figured the gurus
(you specifically) would know from your experience that there are other ways to
get the job done. Apparently not. Or you just don't want to say it.

>Im OUT THERE. Im in the game.

Again, I believe you. I'm not new. I fully believe you are able to hookup with

>If what you say is true, then
>how about you and I have a
>little contest (just for shits
>and gigles of course).

I'm no guru. We could have a contest, but I'd rather just go out sarging with
you, with you standing out of the girls' eyesight while I'm doing my thing. I'm
not trying to compete with you Mystery. I have no desire to teach workshops or
any such stuff. I would like to see average dudes here get laid, and stop the
hero worshipping and try some stuff they haven't tried before, thatis easier to
incorporate. simpel as that.

>see who gets MORE. PUA summit.
>Free seminars. Sarge time with
>the greats.

I want to go, but I don't have that luxury right now. Maybe in the future. I
just don't want to be part of a big cockfarm either, standing around watching

>>I’ll tell you how. CALIBRATION. Going back to the point about the HUNDREDS or
THOUSANDS of intricate moves these guys use…they are so routine based, and
move-based…they are such walking encyclopedias of knowledge, that they focus
way TOO much on the next move, on the next routine, on trying to “calibrate”
the girl’s level of attraction, and “calibrating” their own value and worrying
about whether they are TOO social proofed or too high value that they will blow
themselves out or “calibrating” if she’s ready to be isolated or moved into
rapport gaming.
>this stems from a
>misunderstanding of how we
>LEARN. you small chunk while
>you train (like when you learn
>to ride a motorcycle) and then
>with practice you large chunk
>into patterns until your body
>rides the bike FOR you. this
>is what is meant by the word
>INTERNALIZE. you internalize
>the pieces step by step so
>when you are in set, your body
>automatically does the right
>thing. I dont actually THINK
>about the next step. It comes
>is how we do the RIGHT things

yeah, same as what you said above.

>intuition \in-tu-wi-shen,
>-tyu-\ n 1 : quick and ready
>insight 2 : the power or
>faculty of knowing things
>without conscious reasoning

lol thanks for that. I was just about ready to go to!

>how do we GET intuitive
>information? it isnt there at
>birth. it gets INTERNALIZED
>there ... through PRACTICE.
>>The problem is that they miss THE BIG CALIBRATION…the one that you only see
when you are open to seeing it, and are fully sexually aware. The BIG
calibration is being able to look at a girl (or talk to her for a couple
sentences) and KNOW she wants to be fucked that night, or KNOW that she is open
for a quick seduction. It’s not just jumping from HB to HB and running the
exact same shit over and over and over. It’s going to the HB that you KNOW can
give you what you want.
>if you only approach the girls
>looking to fuck in the
>bathroom, you reduce your
>CHOICE substantially.

agreed. That's why I don't advocate approaching ONLY girls looking to fuck in
the bathroom. I advocate trying out new methods, being ballsy enough to be a
little bold with girls, letting go of canned routines for a bit, finding out
who you really are, and being open to the big calibration which will let you
know when you have run into those girls who want to be fucked in the bathroom.
BIG difference. no more black and white please. the world is colorful and has
many possibilities.

>Seriously. you think we aren't
>up to speed with this or
>something? You don't become a
>fucking hero unless you can
>deliver the goods. come meet
>me. I'll show you my world.
>pua summit. great times ahead.

ok hero. I believe you.

>>One thing that is good about these guys is their consistency. It’s a step by
step program, albeit one with too damn many steps.
>there are ONLY 3 steps for me
>now ... ATTRACT, build COMFORT
>and enjoy a mutual SEDUCTION.
>simple. each stage is now
>>But the bottom line is lays...
>the bottom line for ME is
>LOVE. I want a woman to LOVE
>me. Sex is easy. LOVE
>(pairbonding) is what keeps
>her around and wanting MORE
>SEX with you. (when the woman
>is hot enough, trust me, you
>want her again and again - vid
>clip of new gf in the lounge).

I like this. Even though my post doesn't convey it, I am really into MLTRs, and
yeah especially with the good ones.

That doesn't mean that I don't like ONS though, or that I won't advance things
sexually when I know I can.

>>and in doing what they do, they may be able to game a girl enough every day
or two, and spend seven hours to get a lay. But then there is my buddy who I
wrote about last year couldn’t give a shit about any kind of takeaways or DHVs,
etc, and he goes out and gets a chick to fuck him about 80% of the nights he
goes out...and usually within a matter of hours, often WITHIN AN HOUR! How?
Because he can look at the girls in a room, take a seat, lean back, drink a
scotch, exude sex appeal, and wait for AIs, look at those girls giving AIs,
figure out which ones show the most promise for easy lays, and then go for it.
And his main opening topics involve sex and relationships.
>lone wolves and AIs huh. wait til you
>see what good IS. I accept ALL

repeat of what you said above.

>>You can call that Fool’s Mate. I call it a different, more efficient style of
pickup, that is uncomplicated by the thousands of little rules and steps that
exist out there.
>then lets you and I challenge eachother.
>We will go into a public gathering and
>see which 'method' wins ... fool's mate

It's not a method. And "fools mate" really is a bullshit term for people living
in black and white world.

versus solid game
>April 1 to 5. fool's mate is not a STYLE
>of pickup. its a MISTAKE in the METHOD.
>if SEDUCTION FIRST. its HOPING that your
>look is enough to build ATTRACTION.

nope. It's more than a look. It's a whole vibe/energy/tonality/eye gaze/body

>attraction in reality takes more than
>peacock gear and a wink.

I rarely peacock, and when I do it is not nearly as extreme as you.

What kind of
>CHOICE does THAT breed? only those who
>accept your look? come on, that's not a
>method. that's a hope.

now we're just talking about different things again. you're right, we are
seeing this totally differently. I see a spectrum out there, not just one
"solid game" method.

>>And for those of you who REALLY REALLY REALLY think there is such thing as a
fool’s mate…COME ON! How many times have you fucked girls by doing absolutely
nothing??? When I’ve gone out peacocked, I’ve had girls offer to give me
blowjobs while I was just standing there at a bar ignoring them, throwing a C&F
disparaging comments their way every now and again…but THAT was the gaming.
When I’ve used Grandmaster (which all of you hero worshippers need to try, just
for the hell of it, to see what it does to girls), I’ve gotten girls ULTRA
sexually excited in a matter of MINUTES. It’s a matter of calibration. If you
are getting IOIs or AIs from girls, you have no reason to take forever with the
>This reminds me of several PUAs who
>THOUGHT they were good until they met a
>REAL PUA. I bet you are still playing
>the peacock and wait to AI game.

I rarely peacock. and my peacocking, if it can be called that, is low level.

and the
>"chase the lone wolves" game.

I do lone wolves. I do sets too.

>seriously, we took the game to an
>utterly NEW level that you cannot
>POSSIBLY appreciate til you see it LIVE.
>what you THINK is good is likely only
>20% of what we know good to be.

Hey maybe so. That doesn't make me close my mind to advancing sexually with a
girl fast when I see that possibility there.

>>Get it on! Try some new fucking shit of your own. Try making a move early.
Try kissing a girl AS SOON as you can sense some sexual chemistry. It takes
balls, but it’s worth trying on several girls for a day.
>When you meet me you will know Im not a
>mamby pamby when it comes to going
>sexual haa.


>>Quit treating a pickup like it’s a little fragile piece of invaluable art
that you have to treat just perfectly and perform exactly the right move at the
right time, or that you have to use “solid game” on.
>you have to do the RIGHT thing or you
>LOSE the girl. and when you do lose one,
>you dont want to be the guy to backwards
>rationalize the failure by saying "i
>didnt want her anyways."

I don't say that. Like you, I get oneitis for many girls. I "fall in love" with
several girls a week!

>>That’s (“solid game”) another horrible phrase that needs to go---people keep
using it and then talking about how they couldn’t get a number or kiss or
lay…I’m sorry to tell, ya, but “solid game” should result in “solid” RESULTS.
Pickups are NOT fragile little things!
>the more I read, the more I realize you
>aren't playing the same game as we are.

I know I'm not. There's not just one way to get laid.

>Im in LA. do you see the girls we are

yes, they are beautiful, and LA-ish. but they are still beautiful. (hey there's
a new neg for ya)

Do you know how ACTIVE we are?
>we dont just sit next to a girl and hope
>she AIs us. Come to the free seminar k?

Iknow you guys are very active. You are full-time PUAs. It's your job, your
life. I know you're good. so? What does that have to do with guys who aren't
fulltime PUAs who are trying to run complicated game and aren't getting

>find a PUA buddy in LA and crash there
>for a few days. its adventure.

yeah it would be. I don't know when I'm going to LA, but I'll look you guys up
for sure.

>>Now let me say this. I like reading TDs and Mystery’s archives and posts,
and, believe it or not, I try some of the stuff they post, and use some of the
frames they use. And I have nothing against them. In fact, quite the contrary.
The level of discussion here would not be where it is without them. I
appreciate the level of detail they bring. My problem is with the dudes that
kiss their asses. It gets sooo annoying to see guys who are admitted virgins
and KJs defending them or making claims on their behalf or advertising for
them, or just generally being so sucked into their world that they cannot
possibly believe that other methods can work. It gets annoying to see even
other PUAs who are respected defending them and swinging from their dicks. For
Christ’s sake, whatever happened to being your own man and thinking for
>meet me and you'll understand why those
>who have spent time with me PERSONALLY
>defend my methods. hope to see you at
>the PUA summit bro.
>» (see the video

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