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Why “Fool‘s Mate” is Bullshit

mASF post by Mystery

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Why “Fool‘s Mate” is Bullshit
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mASF post by "Mystery"
posted on: mASF forum: Advanced Discussion, March 3, 2004

Let me further define the issue of what fool's mate means. There are 3 stages
to a full monty (that is why my method is called M3) ... from meet to sex. they
are ATTRACT --> COMFORT --> SEDUCE. Pretty simple so far. But some guys begin
at the end (SEDUCE)! Here is an excerpt from my upcoming book:


M3 Sequencing Mistake # 1: To Begin at The End

The Seducer

The most common error beginners make is to focus on seducing a woman first
instead of attracting her. This is like putting the cart before the horse.
Often, to beautiful women in particular, seduction first is little more than
the equivalent of saying, "You don't know me but will you sleep with me?" There
is a time (and a place) to begin the seduction stage, but it's not until you
first have attraction and comfort (as well as privacy).

Fool's Mate

In the game of chess, it is possible to win in only three moves. This gambit is
called fool's mate. Winning with speed via fool's mate does not however make
you a chess champion. If anything, it only demonstrates your opponent's
inexperience. An experienced chess player will not even attempt a fast fool's
mate for, if the opponent doesn't take the bait, he leaves the player in a weak
position. Similarly, while it is possible to seduce with speed, it is much less
probable on a woman who is socially experienced. In the venusian arts, we refer
to seduction first tactics as fool's mate for the metaphorical similarity.
Instead, both chess champions and venusian artists prefer to play a solid game.

One tactic a seducer will employ is to shamelessly pray on a lot of women.
Though the percentage of winning the game via fool's mate is small, a seducer
may ensure at least some success if he simply hits on enough women. With fool's
mate as his only “winning move”, he will have to live with a reputation for
being rejected by many women.

The main limitation with relying on fool's mate is, the more social the woman,
the less likely it will work. Seducers sacrifice their freedom of choice and
relegate themselves to praying on the socially inexperienced; girls who rarely
get approached. These girls have little choice but to settle for the
uncomfortable advances of the typical seducer. Unfortunately (or fortunately
from a Machiavellian point of view), this includes preying on the young, the
lonely, those with apparent low self-esteem, the anti-social, and the less than

Fool's mate can work in some situations that may be acceptable to you, such as
on drunk girls and those who have a propensity towards having one night stands.
Just don't let it be your only “winning move”.

Seducers mistakenly begin at the end. Just like any typical guy, they often
blatantly disregard a woman's comfort levels entirely. Being typical in this
way is generally not an attractive quality. Even if there is a level of
attraction based on the seducer's appearance alone, this is superceded by her
discomfort in having to deal with aggressive sexual advances from someone she
doesn’t know nor trust. It is best to not prematurely telegraph strong sexual
interest until end-game.


>What I find so interesting is that Mystery and his camp use HUNDREDS if not
THOUSANDS of little moves.

Anyone who takes my MM seminar will understand the elegance of the model. The
issue you bring up is that of CHUNKING. Here's a quick course on it:

try to remember this #: 36514923141592000

hard to remember because there are so many small chunks. but now lets large
chunk it: 365 1492 314159 2000 ... days in a year, when columbus 'discovered'
america, 3.14159 is pi to 5 decimals and the year 2000. easy now, once you
large chunk the small chunks.

in the same way there are hundreds of things to do when driving a car but we
let out motor response automate the reactions for us over repeated drives. same
here. I dont actually THINK about the method as I go. I only think it
AFTERWARDS to I can do the right thing the NEXT time automatically. We learn
things in SMALL CHUNK and then automate it and only think in large chunks. In
fact, when I see the woman I let go of EVERYTHING but my OPENER. my brain does
the work FOR ME. As some of my room mates have complained about, I can't NOT
make a girl attracted to me (my attract phase is automated - weird). Instead of
having to go through this trial and error, self-correcting loop by yourself
over ten years like I did, you can take a seminar and fix all the errors in a
year like TD did.

>I think it’s this reason that people worship them: results + knowledge beyond
one’s own. They hear or see or read of the incredible results these guys get
and then they read their analytical posts and can’t understand them, so they
automatically ASSUME everything written is like the holy bible of seduction.

This is coming from someone who has not taken an MM seminar, NOR even MET ME.
The PUA summit is coming up. come on down and lets all meet up. Maybe, just
maybe, there really IS something to all this. Maybe the hype is TRUE. Is it
POSSIBLE that someone actually FIGURED IT OUT? for real this time?

>The hero worshippers are unable to critically analyze the information, and
thus unable to apply it correctly.

the hero worshipping comes from those who have MET the heros in real life
though. important distinction.

>Okay but what about those people who have had many lays with girls in well
under the 7 hour mark? (by the way, is any lay short of 7 hours now considered
the official cutoff line between a Fool’s Mate, and “solid game.”)

take a look at all the lays you've had and list how long (in accumulated hours)
it took to full monty each. average them out. now add similar data from your
friends. from other puas. from ANYONE. what is the AVERAGE of EVERYONE? you
can't deny the EVIDENCE. I didn't pull that # out of my ass. I DISCOVERED it.
its SEVEN HOURS. can you do it in less? sure you can. but sometimes its more
too. if you rely on fool's mate as your only winning move (as you claim to) you
are seriosuly limiting yourself. dude. its ONLY 7 hours (on average).

>Hero worshippers and heros, Consider this: What if, just what if, a person
could do with a few seconds of eye contact, a few words, the right body
language, right voice tonality, and right subcommunication, BYPASS 20 of your
stacked openers, 15 of your routines, 6 of your peacocked items, 3 takeaways,
50 C&F lines, and 2 DHVs??? Wow, that would be something wouldn’t it?

it sure would ... and this smacks of an IN-EXPERIENCED guy with a wish that
strange women would just knock on his bedroom door and say "hi, Im Mercedes,
may I come in for a shag?" Are you IN the field 4 nights a week? what you are
saying is not REALISTIC. Dude, Im OUT THERE. Im in the game. If what you say is
true, then how about you and I have a little contest (just for shits and gigles
of course). Lets see who gets MORE. PUA summit. Free seminars. Sarge time with
the greats.

>I’ll tell you how. CALIBRATION. Going back to the point about the HUNDREDS or
THOUSANDS of intricate moves these guys use…they are so routine based, and
move-based…they are such walking encyclopedias of knowledge, that they focus
way TOO much on the next move, on the next routine, on trying to “calibrate”
the girl’s level of attraction, and “calibrating” their own value and worrying
about whether they are TOO social proofed or too high value that they will blow
themselves out or “calibrating” if she’s ready to be isolated or moved into
rapport gaming.

this stems from a misunderstanding of how we LEARN. you small chunk while you
train (like when you learn to ride a motorcycle) and then with practice you
large chunk into patterns until your body rides the bike FOR you. this is what
is meant by the word INTERNALIZE. you internalize the pieces step by step so
when you are in set, your body automatically does the right thing. I dont
actually THINK about the next step. It comes INTUITIVELY now. INTERNALIZING is
how we do the RIGHT things INTUITIVELY.

intuition \in-tu-wi-shen, -tyu-\ n 1 : quick and ready insight 2 : the power or
faculty of knowing things without conscious reasoning

how do we GET intuitive information? it isnt there at birth. it gets
INTERNALIZED there ... through PRACTICE.

>The problem is that they miss THE BIG CALIBRATION…the one that you only see
when you are open to seeing it, and are fully sexually aware. The BIG
calibration is being able to look at a girl (or talk to her for a couple
sentences) and KNOW she wants to be fucked that night, or KNOW that she is open
for a quick seduction. It’s not just jumping from HB to HB and running the
exact same shit over and over and over. It’s going to the HB that you KNOW can
give you what you want.

if you only approach the girls looking to fuck in the bathroom, you reduce your
CHOICE substantially. dude. Seriously. you think we aren't up to speed with
this or something? You don't become a fucking hero unless you can deliver the
goods. come meet me. I'll show you my world. pua summit. great times ahead.

>One thing that is good about these guys is their consistency. It’s a step by
step program, albeit one with too damn many steps.

there are ONLY 3 steps for me now ... ATTRACT, build COMFORT and enjoy a mutual
SEDUCTION. simple. each stage is now INTUITIVE.

>But the bottom line is lays...

the bottom line for ME is LOVE. I want a woman to LOVE me. Sex is easy. LOVE
(pairbonding) is what keeps her around and wanting MORE SEX with you. (when the
woman is hot enough, trust me, you want her again and again - vid clip of new
gf in the lounge).

>and in doing what they do, they may be able to game a girl enough every day or
two, and spend seven hours to get a lay. But then there is my buddy who I wrote
about last year couldn’t give a shit about any kind of takeaways or DHVs, etc,
and he goes out and gets a chick to fuck him about 80% of the nights he goes
out...and usually within a matter of hours, often WITHIN AN HOUR! How? Because
he can look at the girls in a room, take a seat, lean back, drink a scotch,
exude sex appeal, and wait for AIs, look at those girls giving AIs, figure out
which ones show the most promise for easy lays, and then go for it. And his
main opening topics involve sex and relationships.

lone wolves and AIs huh. wait til you see what good IS. I accept ALL

>You can call that Fool’s Mate. I call it a different, more efficient style of
pickup, that is uncomplicated by the thousands of little rules and steps that
exist out there.

then lets you and I challenge eachother. We will go into a public gathering and
see which 'method' wins ... fool's mate (SEDUCTION FIRST) versus solid game
(ATTRACT, COMFORT, SEDUCE in order). April 1 to 5. fool's mate is not a STYLE
of pickup. its a MISTAKE in the METHOD. if SEDUCTION FIRST. its HOPING that
your look is enough to build ATTRACTION. attraction in reality takes more than
peacock gear and a wink. What kind of CHOICE does THAT breed? only those who
accept your look? come on, that's not a method. that's a hope.

>And for those of you who REALLY REALLY REALLY think there is such thing as a
fool’s mate…COME ON! How many times have you fucked girls by doing absolutely
nothing??? When I’ve gone out peacocked, I’ve had girls offer to give me
blowjobs while I was just standing there at a bar ignoring them, throwing a C&F
disparaging comments their way every now and again…but THAT was the gaming.
When I’ve used Grandmaster (which all of you hero worshippers need to try, just
for the hell of it, to see what it does to girls), I’ve gotten girls ULTRA
sexually excited in a matter of MINUTES. It’s a matter of calibration. If you
are getting IOIs or AIs from girls, you have no reason to take forever with the

This reminds me of several PUAs who THOUGHT they were good until they met a
REAL PUA. I bet you are still playing the peacock and wait to AI game. and the
"chase the lone wolves" game. dude, seriously, we took the game to an utterly
NEW level that you cannot POSSIBLY appreciate til you see it LIVE. what you
THINK is good is likely only 20% of what we know good to be.

>Get it on! Try some new fucking shit of your own. Try making a move early. Try
kissing a girl AS SOON as you can sense some sexual chemistry. It takes balls,
but it’s worth trying on several girls for a day.

When you meet me you will know Im not a mamby pamby when it comes to going
sexual haa.

>Quit treating a pickup like it’s a little fragile piece of invaluable art that
you have to treat just perfectly and perform exactly the right move at the
right time, or that you have to use “solid game” on.

you have to do the RIGHT thing or you LOSE the girl. and when you do lose one,
you dont want to be the guy to backwards rationalize the failure by saying "i
didnt want her anyways."

>That’s (“solid game”) another horrible phrase that needs to go---people keep
using it and then talking about how they couldn’t get a number or kiss or
lay…I’m sorry to tell, ya, but “solid game” should result in “solid” RESULTS.
Pickups are NOT fragile little things!

the more I read, the more I realize you aren't playing the same game as we are.
Im in LA. do you see the girls we are getting? Do you know how ACTIVE we are?
we dont just sit next to a girl and hope she AIs us. Come to the free seminar
k? find a PUA buddy in LA and crash there for a few days. its adventure.

>Now let me say this. I like reading TDs and Mystery’s archives and posts, and,
believe it or not, I try some of the stuff they post, and use some of the
frames they use. And I have nothing against them. In fact, quite the contrary.
The level of discussion here would not be where it is without them. I
appreciate the level of detail they bring. My problem is with the dudes that
kiss their asses. It gets sooo annoying to see guys who are admitted virgins
and KJs defending them or making claims on their behalf or advertising for
them, or just generally being so sucked into their world that they cannot
possibly believe that other methods can work. It gets annoying to see even
other PUAs who are respected defending them and swinging from their dicks. For
Christ’s sake, whatever happened to being your own man and thinking for

meet me and you'll understand why those who have spent time with me PERSONALLY
defend my methods. hope to see you at the PUA summit bro.

Mystery» (see the video clip)

Unless otherwise noted, this article is Copyright©2004 by "Mystery" with implicit permission provided to for reproduction. Any other use is prohibited without the explicit permission of the original author.


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