mASF post by "TylerDurden"
posted on: mASF forum: Advanced Discussion, September 9, 2003Hey man. Nice LR in the other section btw. I met Paul in London, and he said
that you're very skilled.
Here are some thoughts/elaborations on your post, that might shed light on how
I understand/interpret this stuff (be it right or wrong).
On 9/9/03 10:31:00 PM, angel_caido wrote:
I, myself, have done a lot of
work on it, but still don’t
pass all shit tests with
flying colours, because the
knee-jerk reactions take time
to internalise. (writing this
out helps me internalise it
further).
Yes. This what Mystery was on about when he wrote (back in the day) to go out
4 times a week, 4 hours a night, 12 approaches per night.
Repetition builds a field intuition and eventually you can feel what is the
perfect response to every situation.
Routines/tactics have RANGES. There are certain levels of arousal that a
routine works best at.
When internalizing a new peice, I "RANGE" it. That is my process.
I'll say to Papa, "I'm ranging x-routine".
First sarge, I try it at x-buying-temperature.
Second sarge, I'll try it at y-buying-temperature.
Third, another one.
I try it early, I try it late. I see after several sarges how soon and how
late I can run it. Where is it ideally situated.
This is not a TIME variation, because it can take different girls different
amounts of time to reach a buying temperature.
By doing this, I am reducing fielding time drastically. I get the same level
of intuition on a peice of material that would take most guys months to get,
because I'm consciously testing it (aka "ranging" it).
How do I recognize something subtle like buying temperature level, though?
There's no way to readily verbally describe it. There is only...
....FIELD EXPERIENCE.
This is why I'm able to venue change girls so rapidly, remove them from
alphamales, or extract them from their groups. I can recogonize when they are
at that level instantly, because I RANGED those acts, so I know immediately the
second that they are ready.
Like an oven timer going off..... "bing"
E.g. HB: “you are lying to me”
AFC: “no, I’m not... I
wouldn’t lie to you.. why am I
lying to you?” (notice that he
accepts frame at end)
Level 1: Insecure Reaction
Result: HB senses insecurity
and suspects you are Beta,
possible Eject, or you will
have to work to make up for it
Yes and not only that, but more importantly (IME) is that she shut down your
game by forcing you into a logical frame instead of an emotional one.
GAME = stimulating a girls emotions, thus disengaging logic, thus breaking dow
her ability to stop you from escalating.
LOGIC = Anti-Game, thus she comes out of state
DEFENDING YOURSELF = Logic
Level 2: Overly
Anti-supplicative Reaction
Result: HB Senses insecurity,
suspects you are Beta or worse
Psycho, possible Eject, or
Yes I noticed that also.
Girls fear betas and feel uncomfortable around them not because they are of
lower status necessarily, but also because they know that they take the
interaction TOO SERIOUSLY.
Like, they'll go home and think about it and take it the wrong way and
misinterpret everything to have deeper significance.
Girls are comfortable around alphas generally because they know that when you
say "You're my new GF" its FUN, and that you'll forget about her 5 minutes
later if nothing comes of it, anyway.
Level 3: NO Reaction – Result:
HB senses indifference, Alpha
quality, has NO impact on
sarge
Again, to me its not exclusively about being alpha. It's that indifference
doesn't give her the opportunity to shut your game down with logic.
However it still IS about being alpha, in the sense that its about social
value. Act like someone of social value (generally an "alpha" anyway), and
you'll subcommunicate/telegraph that you were worth seeing, and that she made a
mistake by blowing you off.
I really like not answering girls (I do this ALL THE TIME) and ignoring what
they say, and generally talking over them.
What most guys don't know (even on this board), is that girls are so
ridiculously suseptible to the frames that you throw at them, that you could
distract them from virtually anything within seconds.
I can tell a girl "I'm running a pickup workshopThis is my student.
Student-X, I'm going to make out with this girl within 3 minutes. She's locked
up right now, as you can see by x,y,z. Give me 3 minutes. Then I'll blow her
off, and go tongue down a few more girls, to show you how its done."
The girl will say "WTF did you just say? Are you kidding me?"
I'll reply "hahhaa, I was just kidding.. hey get this (routine, mini-cold-read,
future-adventures-projections, C&F-misinterpretations, etc etc). Start doing
playful pushaways, get her pushing towards me all close, triangular gazing and
then push away, she comes back, and TONGUEDOWN. Or I say "Student-X, watch how
she's touching me when I make her emotional, to try to get me to touch her back
so that she can displace the endorphins I'm shooting into her, and bring
herself out of state. I'll even tell her to stop touching me, and she'll do it
more and more. She won't be able to stop herself, its reflex." Again, RIGHT
to the chick. She's like "Dude, WTF did you say", and I'm like "Hey, pay
attention. I said I want to adopt you.. You're going to be my new little.. OMG
you're so cute, I'm going to pack you in my suitcase and wrap you up in bubble
wrap, so you'll be all squishy and cuddling, and I'm going to bring you back to
Los Angeles with me. We're going to go shopping, and I'll have you on my arm
like this, and EVERY GIRL IN THE PLACE will be JEALOUS of you.." She's like
"OMG that's so awesome! I love you so much! blah blah" and starts touching me
instantly. I say "Hey, you're my little sister.. Hands off the merchandise,
that's 30 bucks reduced rates for little sisters", and she touches me more and
more.
Then I laugh at her and stop the pickup and blatantly remind her that I just
told her I what I was about to do it. She's like "AAAAAAAAH!! WTF ARE YOU
DOING TO ME???"
It's all frame setting. You can PLOW girls' frames so easily.
Not talking is another way to do this.
You just IGNORE what she said, and then its "Follow the shiny thing girls..
Look, its a shiny thing!.. Follow it!" She instantly falls out of her frame
and into yours. It all makes sense, because her emotions are saying "This is
good". Her logic is DISENGAGED enough to ignore what's previously given her a
bad emotion, in exchange for the more pleasant one (or in reality, to be more
specific, the new attachment that you've given the emotion, since really love
and hate are similar chemical reactions, but she tags it differently)
Often, in deep comfortbuilding, I'll have girls on my lap or leaning back on me
or in close, and they'll say some shit like "You're too good at this.. You do
this to girls all the time, don't you?"
I just don't answer. I look at them, and don't answer. Then I ease my
forehead to her head, and she reciprocates, and tonguedown.
Boom, shit test passed.
As you said, you don't even have to answer. You can IGNORE a shit-test, and if
your frame is stronger, she'll forget that she even said it.
The PUA just pretends the HB
didn’t shit test him, doesn’t
say anything / do anything.
This is nice, because it is
EASY to do. IMHO I passed a
lot of shit tests in my first
year of PU, just because I
Yes, good stuff man.
E.g.
HB: “I was going to meet you,
but then BLAH BLAH bullshit
‘justification’”
PUA: (Silence – like a freeze
out)
HB: “But we could meet
tomorrow… can we meet
tomorrow?”
I like this. I'd change it by even mumbling some incoherent stuff about
another topic after a few seconds of freeze out, so it doesn't sound like
you're speechless from being mad or upset. This is like a flakey HB10 would do
to you.
Level 4: Skillful Shit Test
Passing
Result: HB gets more attracted
and Sarge PROGRESSES
Result: She is unable to shut your game down, and use logic to put the breaks
on her state of emotional arousal (which she tends to do just prior to hitting
a higher buying temperature).
OPENING/ ATTRACTION
- Agreement and C&F response
e.g. “Yeah, why is it that
little powerpuffs like you
like that so much?”
- Emotion pump e.g. Tickle
her, hit her,
- Agreement and emotion pump
e.g. “Yeah… oh but baby I
loooooveee you sooo much.”
RAPPORT
- Aggressive reframe of shit
test under your frame
- Freeze-out
SEDUCTION and POST LAY
- Cavemaning
- Freeze-out
- Aggressive reframe of shit
test under your frame
Hope you guys find this
helpful...
-------------
AC
Good summary.
Also, I've noticed that cavemanning is typically useful to escalate a sarge
ONLY in certain cases.
For example, I've done entire sarges start to lay doing ONLY caveman. This is
typical for girls of low social value, like girls over 30, party girls, or
drunk girls.
However, in other cases, I'll use caveman very strategically. For example,
I'll only use it if I know that what I'll FOLLOW UP the cavemanning with is
emotionally arousing enough to make her FORGET that I cavemanned her.
Like with LMR, when she's back at your house but won't kiss. So you grab her
hair back and FORCE it on her. You KNOW that with 5-6 hours that you've been
pushing her through emotional states already, that the physical displacement of
endorphins that the kiss will cause, will definetely have such a strong effect
on her that she'll ignore that you cavemanned her.
KEY TO ESCALATION = EMOTIONS.
If you escalate, and make her laugh, she'll let you. If you escalate, and make
her feel really good, she'll let you.
The emotions that followed up the logical VIOLATION (ie: Why did this guy sit
down at my table? Why is this guy pulling my arm out of the club? Why is this
guy I just met shoving his hand down my pants?), must be powerful enough to
disarm the logic.
You sit down and she wonders "WTF', but say something insanely funny, and she
thinks 'I want him to stay'. You start to finger her, she says no, but as
she's saying it it feels so good that she says to keep going.
All the way, she's backwards rationalizing.
Formula = follow up something that telegraphs interest with something
emotional.
DISARM RESISTANCE TO ESCALATION WITH EMOTION.
Make sense?
-TD
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