The Top Pickup Artist Forum On The Internet: Fast Seduction 101

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You’re the ugliest man on earth
8/21/01 6:14:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time

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If you are in Montreal, make sure I know about it and add you to the
Montreal list where I send out emails from time to time letting you know
about parties, events, get togethers, etc.

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Mark:
For a good laugh, check out Seven Habits of Sensitive, Celibate Men at
http://www.g21.net/tunanow19.html

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Qaexl, a new subscriber to these emails, will be teaching a course on
raising and
storing energy. He is holding the classes on the IRC network
irc.superchat.org (6667) on the channel #spirit_walks, Thursdays from
8 to 9 pm EST starting on Sept 6.

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Paul Lee Amorous:
I would be interested in joining or perhaps even forming a seduction group
for the Toronto area.   Anyone interested can contact me at
Pau***s@ho***.com[ ? ].

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Dwayne: You may want to point out that we have "Microsoft Agent Theatre" on
the www.Dwacon.com site that contains a number of NLP patterns acted out
by the agent characters (including NLP poetry in Peedy's Palace Volume
2).

Re: Planet of the Apes
I was observing how the actors in the latest Ape movie moved... how
the dominant chimp was always bearing his teeth... getting in the
personal space of those he dominated (and even of the Senator, whom
he clearly did not).

Obviously, people can't do ape-like movements, especially in business
or sarging... but it drives home the power of body language» in
communication.

I met a woman on my recent trip to Texas who used this in a business
deal... and it was very slick how she would commandeer and drive the
session by using what bordered on blatant seduction.

If you've read "Prometheus Rising" by Robert Anton Wilson, in it
he describes the '2nd circuit' brain -- the mammalian, territorial
circuit -- that we share with other mammals, particularly with the apes.

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Stephane:
(Commenting on "Jaime I would like some tips on how to drive him crazy and
ways to wrap him around my finger."):

1- Obviously looking good and smelling good, etc. are gonna be important.
But more important is always going to be how you FEEL.  If you want someone
to feel good, go first.  Right?

2- If you really want to hook a guy, work on your tonality.  This is so
important and alot of people miss this.  Hypnosis is only gonna be as
powerful as the tone and tempo that the hypnotist uses, and the same is
true in relationships.  Learn to speak in soft, pleasant tonality.  Bathe
him in tonality, sexy, rich tonality.

3- Be the innocent, Sunday school teacher AND the $1000 a night hooker.  A
man will only commit, truly commit to a woman when she satisfies him
sexually.  If he's too shy to tell you what he wants, I'll tell you what
every man wants: swallow it down, and pretend to enjoy it, too!  Be the
slut he's always dreamed of, but not too quickly.  Make him feel that he's
earned it, because he's so unique and special and you never have and never
would do these things except for him.  Watch porno movies.  Learn what a
'cumshot' is.  Ask yourself, "why do men want us to swallow it and take it
all over our faces?"  (I'm getting horny)  I'll tell you why:

It makes us feel wanted, and truly loved and appreciated and powerful.

How many guys have had girlfriends that would "do anything" for them EXCEPT
that?  Almost all of us.

Now, any guy who can only be with you if you swallow is obviously shallow,
and you should find someone else.  But you asked for methods, and this is
definitely gonna help!

4- Learn how to cook.  Alot of girls THINK they can cook.  I'm saying make
sure you can cook at least a few dishes to perfection.  Best way to a man's
heart (besides swallowing!!!)

5- NEVER, EVER be a nag.  If he leaves his clothes on the floor, don't nag
him...have fun with it!  Bandler suggests that when you see clothes on the
floor, think "OH! He's naked!!".  Either that or put tofu in it.
Don't play mother, and this is one of the most common and dangerous
mistakes women make.  Picking up after him, nagging him to do things,
removing lint from his clothes, etc.  No man is turned on by his mommy
(besides Freud).  He is a man, so treat him like one.

6- I could go on forever.  Let him go out with his friends, even encourage
it.  He'll be home earlier if you do.  And make sure you get along with his
stupid, immature idiot friends.  I know they suck, but don't criticize them
either.

7- When a beautiful woman walks by, don't freak out!  Instead, point her
out to him! Say, "Look! Look at that ass! Wouldn't you like to slide your
big hard..."  You get the point.  If he can't look at other women, he
eventually will want to be with those women.  Because he'll feel
trapped.  Even go to strip clubs with him.  Encourage him to look at these
sluts, and let him get turned on by them.  You will get the sex of your
life if you do that!  This is one of the most beautiful acts of
understanding that you can do.  Or you could do what other women
do  Complain when he goes out with his buddies, and while he's gone, make
big, bright movies in your mind of him doing something nasty and enjoyable
with another woman.  That way, when he comes home, you'll be so pissed that
you'll nag and yell and then he'll go do what you were picturing!  I have
found that this is the strategy that alot of women use.

I could sit here and compose a book on this subject.

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GoneSavage:
This goes along with the post on playing children's games with women.

I've worked on Duck-Duck-Goose a couple times.  You ever see a 4+ set of
girls, talking, formed in a circle?  Duck...duck...duck...goose.  I tap
their heads and run around the circle after "goose."  I haven't decided if
it matters if my target is "goose" or not.  No one has chased me yet.  But
it is a major break-state.  Plus it gets the whole group involved, instead
of isolating your target.

I did it last night at an outdoor concert.  5 set. The goose didn't chase.
I act disappointed and say, "What, you don't like Duck-Duck-Goose?  We can
play Simon Says instead."

The goose says, "Okay, I'll be Simon.  Simon says, 'go get that guy's
hat.'"

I go over to this guy and say something like, "I know this is kinda
immature, but see that girl over there, she thinks you are cute but she is
too nervous to come talk to you."  All the girls are watching and
laughing, wondering what I am telling this guy.

I come back to the 5 set and say, "He'll be over in a minute.  He thinks
you're cute too."  Everyone laughed.  This is ambiguous because she
doesn't know what I said to the guy, she probably interpreted it to mean,
"He thinks you're cute, as do I."  Then there were intros and small talk.
This girl and another were taking turns asking me questions.  I kept them
laughing and fired a few questions back.  I number closed with, "There's
a Tug-Of-War contest next weekend and I want you all on my team." Turning
to the targeted girl I say, "Give me your number and I'll call with the
details."

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NightLight9:
A Close:
Picking out my Pimp clothes (for a pimp cruise) with Brenton on
Wed.  Started giving this sales girl (7 face - only due to some slight acne
- 9 bod - ballerina...) a real hard time.  She was wearing a summer camp
shirt from Kansas and  we kept saying what she was doing was strange and
that it was because she was from Kansas (even though she kept denying she
was from Kansas).  Then she asked where we were from and we both say
Kansas.  Now I have a slight Boston accent and Brenton has a HEAVY
Australian accent so this is pretty funny.  She would say "I'm from Ohio,
not Kansas."  To this I would reply "That really explains it...  You must
really be amazed to see what the Ocean looks like!"  Her, "Ohio's not that
bad."  Me, "Yeah, it's a real downer... no Woolworth's here" (This is
working because she likes this verbal sparing, you always have to monitor
how much she needs and then pull back without really putting her off.  It
also helps to have traveled or know people who have so you can pull shit
like Woolworths out of your ass to build a little rapport/curiosity...)
Anyways, this continues as Brenton tries to pick out his stuff (he's doing
a good job of giving her a hard time, too).  I keep joking with her and
building chemistry, but I'm still non-committal (she's cute, but not a
SHB).  She is clearly having a good time and receptive.  At one point, she
has to chain up one of the dressing rooms, but I could have kiss closed her
by the stall, but I decided against it as I just didn't feel like it (I
kind of wish I had now).  I don't know if I can explain this too well
except to say that she wasn't paying attention to what she was doing, she
was paying attention to me.  She
was making so much eye contact and her body language» was so open.  She was
standing in a way that it would have been very natural for me to step into
her personal space and kiss her.  Women don't accidentally put themselves
in these positions...
Anyway, Brenton and I left and came back about an hour later on our pimp
clothes quest.  When we came back, I asked her where we could get a
cane.  Still great response and she made a good suggestion.  So we went and
bought one.  We came back about 15 minutes later with a fly cane and
Brenton looked at some more shirts.  I decided to close her.
I started to qualify her.
NL9 "Have you ever been snow boarding?"
HB  "I can't do physically dangerous stuff"
NL9 "Ballerina, huh?"
HB "How did you know that?" (good cold reading, no ? : -)
NL9 "You know I had the strangest experience the other day, me and my
friend were riding our motorcycles..."
HB "You ride a motorcycle?"
NL9 "Yeah, but I can't take you on it...  It's too dangerous"  (I'm such a
bastard) "Anyway, were riding and"
HB "All my friends always say that."
NL9 "That's because you're so delicate.  Anyway..."
HB "But I really like them!"
HL9 "Anyway"
feeling she might dig that, but she didn't) and she seems a little bored,
so I finish the story with > "But I don't know if your into animals at
all..."
and everyone likes animals>
HB
false connection I implied> sarcastically with a smile "No, animals
suck.  I hate animals."
the desired effect, of putting the onus on her.>
NL9
minutes later, she's now fixing some shirt on a rack>  "Those look much
better now that you adjusted them. It makes a real statement."
up and makes eye contact> "Do you want to get some coffee sometimes?"
HB
that she's ignored my question because I can tell she's thinking and she
wants to say yes.  After a few seconds she says "Yeah"
referring to my offer, but I ignore it and keep talking>
HB "That was delayed response to your question."
NL9 " I know"
HB
NL9  "Do you want to give me your number so I
can call you."
HB  "Yes, but I'm deciding...  How old are you"
year senior in dance>
NL9 "35"
HB "No, you're not."
NL9 "105"
HB "..."
NL9 "Guess."
HB  "Just tell me"
NL9 "27"
HB  "That's so old"
NL9 "Yeah, I know...  I'm really old."
HB   (the kind that's buying time while she thinks)
NL9 "So are you trying to decide if I'm safe"
HB  "... I already know you're not safe"
NL9 "That's right, I'm not, but I'm a lot better than I used to be."
 "I used to be psycho, but there was no health coverage so I had to
get something more stable."
HB  "OK, here's my number, this is for you, nobody else.  OK?"
NL9 "OK..."
guys?  I don't let on that this is a bizarre request>
She writes down:
"Miss Kansas"

We talk for another 15 minutes or so.  She clearly is enjoying it (as she
has the whole conversation).  Lots of fun.

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Steve Boyley (NLP Master & Trainer, www.nlpmind.com):
How to say "I'm the right age for you!"
Luck is the crossroads of opportunity and preparation. So it pays to be
prepared.
When the inevitable "How old are you?" question comes up, be prepared!
.... Say it with a SMILE NOW, teasingly:
"I'm as old as YOU WANT ME to be... as experienced or exciting as YOU
DESIRE ME."

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Mystery:
(Commenting on "Ross:
I think that the road is ATTRACTION, not seduction.

I think this is actually a good distinction; I have told guys over and over
and over and over that the goal of SS is to create an attraction, that
allows THEM to choose what is going to happen."):

Mystery Replies: I believe there is a FURTHER distinction ... what is
ATTRACTIVE? Envy is the magic word. Envy is the powerful emotion that we
wish to evoke in our target. Of COURSE we want to make them ATTRACTED ...
but WHAT is it that makes them WANT TO BE WITH US? I believe the word
ATTRACTION connotates a SEXUAL ATTRACTION - a HORNINESS. This is not the
case. We want them to WANT something from us. It isn't sex because hell,
they know they can get that from anyone. They will require a WANT for
something from us. What though? If they ENVY something from you, they will
be ATTRACTED to it ... ENVY is a want for something someone else possesses.
For instance, if you can get a girl thinking, "I sure wish I had his skill"
or "I wish I had his positive outlook" or "I wish I had his lifestyle," you
are on the right track. The truth is, you want her wanting to BE you. "I
wish I was HIM." "I wish I had THAT." What is THAT? Could be a natural»
skill, social status, or, yes, even something material like money or a car.
It could also be ... alot of things - comments? Get her to think, "I wish I
was him" and the next best thing for her will be possessing YOU. I think
LIFESTYLE is a good sell. A lot of girls wish they were performers. So if
you are already a performer then they will ENVY you. If you have a hot car
(ok, bad example) and they wish THEY had one, they will feel good to at
least ride in YOUR hot car. If you had a special skill or power or
intelligence or insight that was uncommon and they wish THEY had that
particular skill or power, then they would feel better to at least try to
possess you in hopes of the knowledge rubbing off you onto them.

ENVY. If they ENVY you, they are ATTRACTED to you!

It may be enlightening to list things that they would be envious of. I'll
begin the exercise:

1. Your touch with the supernatural wicca, tarot cards, psychic powers,
mind powers, etc. Notice how this shit only works on girls who would be
ENVIOUS of you if you had what she wished she could have.

2. Skills, singing or public speaking, for instance. Again, she will be
more ENVIOUS if she already WANTS to be a singer or public speaker ... or
actress. Like minded individuals get along because one ENVIES the
other.  Actors go out with actresses.

3. Stuff, yep, money and cars and homes. If they ENVY your stuff, this will
attract them to you. remember, though, that if they DON'T ENVY this then
this means they won't be attracted to you because of these things.

4. ???

Anyways, I make girls wish they had my mental abilities. As I look back
upon my success stories, I notice that they ALL envied a particular trait
of mine. They WISHED they had that trait. "I wish I could do what you do."
"I wish I had your job." "I wish I had your life." Get THOSE thoughts in
her head and you will land yourself a woman.

Comments???? By the way, I call it Mystery's Envy Theory.

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Lee:
I'm wondering if anyone else has tried an approach where you just invite
yourself into a conversation. I have been doing this a lot recently and it
has worked pretty well. (The girls have been very receptive.) For example,
last night went like this:

3 Girls in a group 7,7.5 and 8.5 "...yeah, I want to go as an X-man again
this year." (talking about Halloween)

Me (Turn to them out of nowhere), "Wait, who was it that liked the X-Men?"

Girl 1, "I was one for Halloween, and we're trying to see if we all want to
do it again."

Me, "Cool, have y'all been to Halloween here yet..." etc...

This has worked the 10-15 times I've tried it. This group was a 3-set, and
I # closed the oldest chick at the end of the night.

What do y'all think? I just eavesdrop on the convo until something
interesting is said, then I jump right in. I don't comment on it, I always
start with a question relating to that topic. Comments? Critiques?

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Elroy:
I have a few comments about DJ's forwarded letter from the older woman with
whom he was corresponding.

The structure and language is excellent.  It starts here with:
>Well, it was a great ride while it lasted.  I've read some of your posts
>here and I'm wondering if you haven't perhaps tired of the game - if so
>better for you.  I'm going to share something with you that probably 2
>people in the world know since it's not really part of who I am any more.

-  pacing of the situation and evoking concepts of 'sharing a secret', and
also carefully introducing the idea of 'being tired of the game', and
framing that as being something good.
>I used to be a master (or perhaps mistress would be better) of seduction.
>I stopped counting my lovers when I reached triple digits and I wasn't sure
>I had counted them all.

-  isomorphic metaphor from the place of authority and experience.  It's
something that she used to do, and she asserts authority with the 'triple
digits' comment.  Not many men can make claims like that!
>I was probably about your age - maybe a bit older,

-  added similarity in the metaphor to further pace the situation.
>and of course, this was the carefree 70's - free love and all that, women's
>lib and the fact that women were finally realizing they had a sex drive as
>powerful and sometimes more powerful than a man.  I could take a man home
>just by looking at him.

-  more powerful examples to entrench the authority frame
>That, of course, stopped when I got married at 30 - even though my marriage
>sucked and was a mistake from the beginning.  When I got separated and
>divorced, inadvertently, I found myself up to my old games.  Which was
>okay, because I needed to sense myself as a woman again, needed to reattach
>myself to my sexual power since I'd buried it in a really awful, painful,
>abusive marriage.

-  personal revelation to further cement the frame, and framing seduction
as 'old games', which may have been 'okay', but....
>Then I discovered something even more powerful.

-  something more powerful than seduction?  Response potential generation.
> That sex with the same
>person who you have a strong attachment to in and out of bed can blow you
>away in ways that you never thought possible.

-  *massive* internal search for meaning with this sentence!  Introduction
of the concept of committed monogamy as a better alternative to seduction.
> And that the fascination and
>attraction of the hunt and capture pale beside someone who learns your
>rhythms and your secret places, who opens up your vulnerability and shares
>theirs, who integrates love making into the fabric of your lives together.

-  beautifully poetic and evocative language full of implied meaning, and
the *implied* either/or options of 'experience fascination and attraction
of hunt and capture' OR 'be with someone who learns your rhythms and secret
places'.  Sensory/metastate language of 'option X pales next to option Y'
This woman is Good with a capital G!
>There is a connection you can find that is beyond the best that the purely
>physical can offer.  But it takes time, and the focus that one single lover
>can give.  If you're being satisfied whenever it strikes you, you forget to
>long for them, anticipate them, hunger for them.  And you miss that
>lightning strike when you finally connect after absence and all the ways
>that you can connect when you're apart.

-  this paragraph is just too good!  More ambiguous language, setting the
anticipation for reward, and placing conditions upon its gain.  Moves
towards negative motivation of 'all the things you'll miss' if that path is
not taken.
>There is so much more that you will miss.

-  utilizing negative motivation, and leaving the message hanging without
being specific about what more will be missed, leaving the reader to
imagine what those things might be.
>XXXXXXX

-  when quoting another's email like this, please delete their name.
>PS - did you forget or did I forget to tell you that one of the things that
>I do in my strategic consulting is research via the internet?  Of course I
>checked you out when I realized I knew little about you.  Here's just a
>little of what I found.

-  which goes to show you, for God's sake be careful what you sign your
name to on the internet, because it can and will be found.

This entire message operates as a fantastic driver towards a monogamous
relationship.  I am not disputing the validity of the message, but
commenting on its well-crafted vehicle of delivery.  Assuming that it was
written from the heart, it is also chock full of trance words,
metaprograms, criteria and the like which seem to delineate her world-map
very well.

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Ronnie:
With regards to Claude, he is a fairly common archetype of a natural
PUA.  A while ago Maniac High posted something about a guy named Taro San,
an international nomadic vagabond who seduces woman throughout Europe.
He is poor, seldom employed, lives in flop house and barely speaks the
language of his host country, yet he is a master of street PU. Yet like
this Claude, it is somewhat hard to pinpoint what really makes them
successful, at least in specific, detailed terms.  It's like a Stradivarius
violin, the violin can be physically copied but its sound never
replicated.  Although, a lot of it has to do with being the romantic bad
boy which is what woman seem to really like (like the character of Viril in
George Orwell's "Burmese Days", the man who wanders from British outposts
and seduces woman in the jungle).

I know of a couple guys who are "bad boys" who do very well with
women.  One guy I know had the left side of his face paralyzed as a child
and now he talks with a funny accent.  He is irritating, self-centered 40
years old and works in a small ethnic grocery store yet he pulls
women.  Part of it is that he says what is on his mind, is very
individualistic; he does not hold back saying something even if it hurts
someone.  This has caused him to alienate himself with people.  However
this guy recently had a birthday party and there were many attractive women
there, most of who had  borefriends.

What I was wondering was if this Claude only pulled certain types of woman,
although I doubt it since the bad boy seems to have universal appeal to
women.  Also, what kind of strategy does he use to pull threesomes?  Is it
sheer boldness or animal appeal that allows him to do this?  I mean  Rick
H. had a strategy...

It's frustrating to hear of people like this Claude when you have this
technology of SS.   Although they do things that are incorporated in SS, I
would find it hard for the bad boys to recite patterns, elicit values and
make women feel good for the sake of seduction.  But then again, maybe we
are all natural PUA's deep down, we are just too inhibited to let that
childlike side out in a regimented world.

My Comment:  Claude's main strength was that he was a combination of being
very cool, full of energy, and always looking to have fun and joke
around.   He would get women because they'd first enjoy his joking with
them (and everyone), his coolness and he was a very sexy guy (always in
fashion, although his style tended to be very casual, often a lot of sweat
pants and relaxed outfits) who knew how to lead people in all
situations.  He was elusive in a way also which got them to chase him to a
degree.  He had his routines, doing magic tricks, telling jokes, etc. and
he looked like he was doing important things and going important
places.  You wanted to find out what was happening.

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Halbster: Yesterday, while I was sitting in a diner, about 11:00 p.m., a
tall blonde HB
with one of the most angelically beautiful faces I've ever seen got up and
started walking toward me (and the register/exit).  As she started
approaching, I said the following:

"You can just keep walking (brief pause) and go home to another ORDINARY
night
(pause) or you can STOP, and sit down with me as you begin an adventure, make
a new friend, and explore the type of romance that until now only existed in
your wishes, dreams, and fantasies."

I think this can be a very easy and effective method for your students to
use.  It instantly frames anything other than your desired response as
ordinary, AKA boring, while offering both a challenge and an opportunity.

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Mystery:
(Commenting on Ross Commenting on "(I believe we are talking about the same
type women. The type that Sys and Mystery get - young, beautiful, conceited
but with low self esteem, shallow, and usually with closed minds and 0
taste in music. Club girls, in short.")"):

I'm not sure who wrote that generalization but I just wanted to comment on
the Mystery TYPE - young, beautiful, conceited but with low self esteem,
shallow, and usually with closed minds and 0 taste in music. Club girls, in
short.

Yes, YOUNG and BEAUTIFUL are two qualities I prefer, although older but
BEAUTIFUL by all means still has a chance. As for conceited, truth is,
CONCEIT just goes with the territory of BEAUTIFUL. They only ACT conceited
because they KNOW that they are beautiful and they will know this only
after socializing and getting hit on alot. Do I PREFER this? No, I just
ACCEPT it. If I were to ONLY go for the BEAUTIFUL ones that have NOT yet
been socialized, then I'd seriously be limiting my opportunities. And The
MORE hot they are, the more LIKELY they will be conceited. As for LOW SELF
ESTEEM ... they ALL have it. ALL people can be made to feel humbled, even
girls who are near PERFECT. That is why NEGS are so powerful. Certainly
UG's have low self-esteem for good reason, they are often proven to be
ugly. Think about it, you will KNOW when you are UGLY but might not know
that you are BEAUTIFUL. That is what self-esteem is all about. When a girl
THINKS she is hot, she MAY or MAY NOT be right. That isn't the point,
though. If she THINKS she is hot, we must NEG them to lower their bloated
(accurate or not) self esteem down to the level of an UG. We HUMBLE them
(without INSULTING them). Are my GF's conceited with ME? No. They are just
conceited with STRANGERS. They KNOW they are hot...and they are RIGHT. They
get approached A LOT. They have PROOF to the "I am hot" statement
demonstrated DAILY. I personally don't have a problem with THAT, it's just
a matter of FACT. Don't take their conceit PERSONALLY. If you do, you
certainly will be limiting YOURSELF greatly. They're only CONCEITED at
FIRST. Don't worry people, really, it goes away.

Next, let me comment on SHALLOW. Every girl is DIFFERENT. I cannot, to this
DAY, figure out what people MEAN by shallow. Truth is, there are some who
are goal-oriented and are listmakers, while some are not. Is it SHALLOW to
live day to day instead of living PREPARED a month in advance? Well, if she
is making good money stripping for instance, then she will not HAVE to plan
in advance. What is the difference between a STRIPPER and a NON-STRIPPER?
The answer? Going to a strip-club and stripping for money. With that will
come some co-characteristics like the lack of need for planning and the
fact that they are more pleasure-seeking than others who have decided to
NOT INDULGE in pleasure like the poor secretaries who hate the 9 to 5
rat-race.
If a girl is HOT and knows it, she may decide it's easier to take advantage
of that fact. Is that SHALLOW? Once she is IN the money-making process,
just like having any other JOB where you go everyday, you get a false sense
of security, a sense that you will be at work the next day to make MORE
money. With this security comes the fact that they will NOT have to design
their month and be goal-oriented...so long as they just go to work on a
regular basis.  They then can ENJOY the money they make, INDULGING in their
humanity with the money. Pleasure-seekers are what most of us would be if
we were making a comfortable living. On to CLOSED MINDS: Do I like girls
who are close-minded? No. But also, not so OPEN-MINDED that their brains
fall out of their head. What does CLOSED-MINDED mean? Truth is, my gimmick
(conveying a sense of MYSTERY) appeals to the OPEN-MIND. I enjoy the
challenge of finding a girl a little off her rocker (they are truly more
fun) and then improving their outlook (giving them a skeptical view of all
the shit out there). Lastly, as for "0 taste in music", you are however,
SPOT ON! Their music tastes SUCK SHIT. : P

Mystery (Commenting on: "That's what I kinda think in some respects. I
think virtually ALL women enjoy a funny, cocky guy. It's the "never give
her a straight answer" type evasion that is going to turn off a more mature
woman with some self-esteem. She'll LOVE the cocky, LOVE the funny, LOVE
the refusal to ass-kiss, but CONSTANT withholding of straight answers is
going to piss off a woman with self-esteem and brains, and eventually bore
her as well."):

Disagree. Mystery is desired across the board. Self-esteem has NOTHING to
do with the enjoyment of a good mystery. As for BRAINS, well, the way I see
it, if she is just plain ol' dumb, then they won't appreciate the mystery
because seriously, the WORLD is a mystery. They are used to EVERYTHING not
making sense and just ACCEPTING that...they're the OPEN-MINDED people! The
older you get, generally, the more information about the world you will
download into your brain. So when a mystery comes along, it's INTRIGUING.

One last thought: fuck it, I could be completely wrong. I don't know how
women think. I just TRY to know. I do my BEST and I experiment alot with
them to figure out what makes them tick.

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Rio:
A few years ago for an experiment an actor buddy of mine set me up with a heavy
metal looking style wig (long hair) that definitely looked real, especially
because
it was covering up any of my real hair.  I felt like a real idiot and was
pretty
worried about how the public would interpret me, but I went in to this
night club
near where I live anyway (in Connecticut).

Lo and behold I got the hottest chick in there all over me. And believe me,
it was
NOT related to my attitude, because I felt really embarrassed and insecure.
I just
kept my mouth shut so no one would find me out. Of course, after this chyck
came up
to me, I then felt more like myself.

I guess that "long haired' look resembles the main manly character on the
cover of
all those Harlequin Romance novels they read : )

As far as what happened afterwards, we ended up making out and could have
taken it further. I did go on a second date with her, and I did wear the
wig again, though I think her Mom saw
right through me when she met me. I didn't score another date after that.

I still think there's something about long hair on a guy, maybe not the be
all and the end all
-- but it would be cool to give it a further investigation. If it's in the
budget,
I plan on having a high-end hair system done for me, using a Fabio style,
or just
long hair that's a well kept kinda look thing. I am convinced that in America
this is the look that attracts the HB's and SHB's.

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NightLight9:
> So what does the group think?  Is the Intrigue of a
> Stranger more important - the shock value so-to-speak.
> Or Pacing her Reality and SOI so she call on her own
> experiences and feel more at ease.

Nightlight9: It depends on the girl and you (or more important her
perception of you).
If she perceives you as dangerous is that good or bad?  Well, does she want
dangerous or not?  Most women will give you feedback.  You need to use your
sensory acuity to figure out if she's scared or excited or bored and then
correct if necessary.  If you see a girl on the train and she seems nervous
to begin with, go with a softener like the one you mentioned ("I know this is
a strange way...").  If she's alert and looking around, mirror that back with
open friendliness like it's normal for you to talk.  If she's bored, act
bored too.  In 8/10 cases (clinically proven :-), mirroring her behavior back
is the best first step.  In the other 2 you need to base your actions on her
but it won't be to act the same way she is (for instance, if she's being
snotty, you may need to provide a strong interrupt).
> I've got the same problem. I've never been able to make on-line
> dating work, because of the "photogenically challenged" situation.
> In person, I can get my energy, confidence and voice across, as well
> as my touch.  But as a picture, PRIOR to hearing my voice...

Nightlight9: So my suggestion is to overplay how ugly you are.  Keep
telling her you're the
ugliest man on earth and how lucky you are that women see past that because
you would never be able to date such beautiful women otherwise. Lay it on
thick.  Send a picture of a donkey.  Make her work for it.  This won't work
100% of the time, but I bet it will work more than 0% (which is where you
are now)
> (Stephane on a different topic)
> Here is some advice I gave recently to an SS newbie, who wanted to know
how
> to get started and start closing deals.  I gave him a good, short pattern
> (From Bandler) and some general advice
>
> [snip about moving quickly for newbies]
> So, once you've managed to start a conversation, and she's laughing, and
> you've got rapport (this should only take 90 seconds), ask her out.  I'll
> tell you what to say in a minute, but before I do it's important for you
to
> understand the basics.  Do not force the conversation to last too long,
> because you face the risk of boring her.  Make your interactions in the
> beginning short and sweet,

NightLight9:  This is great advice.  Start quick and slowly move to more
advanced longer
PU.  The other more SS technique is to start long with lots of patterning, etc.
but few closes, then as you get better you start to close.
>and hit them with this
> YOU (taking a step back, tilting your head, furrowing your eyebrows, as if
> you've just noticed something intriguing about her)
>
> HER (smiling, wondering what's going on) "What???"
>
> YOU (With extreme confidence) "What would I have to do to make you WANT TO
> GO OUT WITH ME?"  (you say "want to go out with me" like a command, not a
> question)

NightLight9: I'm curious: has anyone else had good luck with this close? I
have not had good
luck with similar ones and I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong.  Comments?
> HER (she'll eventually tell you.  If it's something stupid, like, buying
> her a car, look at her with disgust and walk away.)

NightLight9:  Are you mostly targeting older women (24+)?  I don't have a
good experience
with this kind of thing with 18-24 year olds as they still expect to be
swept off their feet.

NightLight9 (Commenting on Joseph's comments): I'm not going to respond to
this in detail, because I feel it's more of a knee jerk reaction to Sys's
knee jerk comments on SS, which he has certainly recanted to a degree.  I
think everyone here would eventually have to admit
that they believe SS and AM both have real value when pushed...  No need to
argue anymore.

NightLight9 (Commenting on "Ross's comment  ha ha ha. I clicked on this
one; these guys make MY marketing look like Emily Dickinson. HA HA HA. It's
worth it, just to have
the book as a prop to meet women in bars! I'm going to order a copy JUST
FOR THAT REASON ALONE! Bring it to a singles' bar and don't let anyone take
a peek! HA HA HA HA! Then, toss it aside, and start sarging! HA HA HA HA HA!"):

NightLight9:  Let us know if the cover and book really look like the
picture.  I get the feeling it won't.  But if it does, it would be a pretty
cool tool.

NightLight9 (Commenting on "It's funny that she claimed she and her
ex-husband (short 10 month marriage) never consummated the marriage and he
refused to sleep with her for a long
time prior to them getting married. I wonder why and why she married a man
like that? I guess what I smelled that night was nowhere near the full
potential of that beast. This was one of the scariest moments of my life for
I thought for sure she would press charges for some sort of sexual assault
and I would have been finished. She did not."):

NightLight9:  Do you realize how screwed up this woman is?  The fact that
her behavior seems even remotely normal to you should be enough to cause you
great concern about yourself.  Healthy people do not claim they never slept
with their husbands of 10 months.

NightLight9 (Commenting on "On another topic:
One thing I noticed recently is that when I do not respond to a woman's
nonsense they invariably end up coming back nicer and more demure and
apologetic than before. Recently, I've had women slam the phone on me, curse
me and yell and tell me they did not want to speak to me again. I left them
alone and did not pursue them and within a few days they ended up calling as
if nothing happened and offered to take me out to lunch or dinner or to cook
something for me. Amazing, I think. It seems as if walking away from
volatility and not acknowledging it shows a woman that you will not tolerate
her nonsense and be a real man."):

NightLight9:  This is true, but dealing with these women is such a
PITA  (Pain In The Ass) that
I don't think it's worth it.  If it's one isolated instance, OK, but
continual?  No way.

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