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"SS trumps Tao of Steve!"

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SS trumps Tao of Steve!
3/28/01 4:59:28 PM Eastern Standard Time


Here's another call for anyone in Montreal to contact me about being on my
Montreal email list.  There has been some preliminary interest in getting a
group together to practice and work on skills.  The email list would also
let you know of any events that occur locally that may be of interest.


Here's another product to check out:
Where are all my reviews of this stuff, guys?  I am sure at least a few of
you buy each item I mention here and could point the rest of us to the good
stuff and away from the bad stuff.


In case you didn't see it, the writer of "The Rules" is getting a divorce:


Becky: Hey, Cliff your emails are for guys.  What about us women?  Unless
they look like me, they are shit out of luck. LOL

My Comment:  I think that some women have a real charm that can (to a
degree) overcome their looks, but I agree with you that most women unless
they are attractive are shit out of luck.  Fortunately, what is attractive
to one can be different than what is attractive to another.

I think that we have all seen ugly or plain people with attractive people of
the opposite sex and I bet that there are things that unattractive women can
do (other than attract golddiggers) to get good looking guys. There was some
discussion of this on my list awhile ago, but not enough.  Comments?

How do men feel about full figured women? Do they find them to be
more appreciative in a relationship and sexy in bed?

My Comment: I think you need to be a little more specific about "full
figured."  Whenever I see that in a personal ad, for example, it means to me
"fat."  If you are talking about well endowed (but not fat) I think it
really depends on the woman.  There's a joke email going around with a photo
of a really sexy woman and the joke is that some guy out there is glad to be
rid of her -- so it isn't just their looks or the size of their tits that
makes a woman a great partner.  And, yes, when they are full figured (here I
use it to mean "heavy") they are often more appreciative and express that
with a lot of affection.  Not always, though...

I think a lot of men don't see the beauty on the inside unless the
woman has great looks. They really miss out. A lot of men are looking for
a woman like me and half the time they look like Forrest Gump and couldn't
get a woman with such beauty.   Well, so I thought until I saw your emails.
Wish you had one for women to help them out.  How does it work, is it what
you say or act? What if a woman goes to bed with a guy the first nite?  Is
it then over before it begins?

My Comment: I think in a sense we all need to have a spark, some chemistry
in order to be attracted to someone.  My experience has been that I have met
some women who were very good looking but something about them didn't feel
right (of course there were others that did feel very good).  And I think
women also need to feel or see certain things right away also to be

As for how it works, it is mostly in what you say although you have to act
in a way that shows you are confident and cool.

For me, it doesn't matter to me if a woman goes to bed with me the first
night or not.  My two longest relationships started off that way.  The only
reason I would have a one night stand is because I didn't enjoy it enough to
repeat it.  As a general rule, I know that the person I am with has probably
as much or more experience in bed than I do, so what's with the acting
innocent business?  I know a lot of women think that this is not the best
way to keep a guy around but I think that what is more important is not how
quickly it happens but 1) the rest of the experience, meaning how the two
people got along and how much they feel they actually got to know each
other, and 2) that the guy doesn't get the impression that the woman just
sleeps with anyone.  It may seem that if a woman goes to bed with a guy
right away that she's easy, but I think that is not necessarily the case.  I
realize I am talking from a male perspective and it is probably true that I
want it both ways (in other words, go to bed with me right away but don't
let me think you are always so easy).  In the end, there's really no right
way and no wrong ways, only different ways and ideas.


I have a reply to this "you're awesome, can't see you" deal. Got an email
from her explaining the reason. Seems she is engaged and about 4 weeks from
taking the plunge. Thought she'd have a little diversion with internet
personals before checking out. May be having second thoughts now unrelated
to my "limited" beliefs! Still trying to figure that one out.


>  The superhotties are just girls. The same as
>7's. There is one big difference; they are used to people being intimidated
>by their beauty. Believe me, their brothers, family, friends and BOYFRIENDS
>were not. Their inner circle are on their level and laugh and joke and poke
>them in the ribs. I am most definitely still on my sisters level, and poke
>fun at both her and her boyfriend, just as they do to me.

I think this is totally true, and here is a deeper truth: they have a
set of anchors and responses for those who have kissed their asses
and for those who are in the inner circle. So do the inner circle
stuff (joking around, taking them unseriously, goofing on them) and
the associations to you will be "inner circle".

Anytime ANYONE has common experiences and uncommon experiences,
those anchors tend to be quite separate and discrete and also quite
rigid. So use them!
>  The 9's and 10's have LESS
>REAL OPTIONS in men than the 7's but more sub-standard suitors. Why? If you
>want to be part of their inner circle, you can not be intimidated by their
>beauty. More guys are not intimidated by a 7's beauty than a 9's. Therefore
>the 9 has less men to choose from. Guys who do not put them on a pedestal
>are few and far between.

Either arrogant assholes or guys at their level of looks/success. So
if you come along totally different AND firing off the "inner circle"
anchors AND can pass her shield-tests, BINGO..suddenly YOU are unique
and valuable and rare.

Do you know something funny......I eat breakfast and lunch sometimes
at a local restaurant in Venice. One of the waitresses we will call
Stacey is a real hottie. 29, but looks 22, super-hot bubble-butt,
blonde hair and great friendly energy too.

Every time I am in there, a guy has asked her out, offered her movie
tickets, given her gifts (tulips most recently). I have never been in
there when she has NOT been asked out or offered something.

Now, I know from a girl who has been friends with her brother for
years, Stacey does NOT have a borefriend.  Why? I could guess, but
one thing, from talking to her, is she is actually very bright and
gets bored by most people. She calls them "sheeple".

Now, I treat Stacey well enough, but what I offer her is mental
stimulation. Different ideas to get her mind going. And I demonstrate
I understand her world.  Which has got her intrigued (she told me so
quite blatantly).
>  What does a neg (or teasing) do? Demonstrates to
>her that you do not have her on a pedestal. That you are not one of the
>sub-standard suitors.
>Therefore, picking up a 9 or 10, requires a statement of power (in that you
>are her equal, and do not in any way worship her) such as a neg, then
>treating her as if she is a 7. Simple as that.

Great advice: a statement of power!  I guess I negged Stacey by
asking why she wore the same clothes every time I saw her......she
denied it and said, "I wore this yesterday and again today because I
felt like it, but I wear different things!"
>"I want to find out if
>there is more to this beautiful angel" sucks.

Hold on! HOLD ON! HOLD ON!

It sucks if it is done wrong! I keep telling guys as I have said all
along, YOU NEVER DELIVER THIS AS IF IT WERE SERIOUS!  You do it with a smile
like you KNOW it is a total put on! It is NOT designed to
compliment her but to appeal to her sense of humor! It is SO fucking
corny and SO over the top, it is PURPOSELY designed to make her is making fun of all the bullshit over the top compliments
she has gotten!  I'll even roll my eyes when I deliver it as if
saying, "Can you believe the crap you've gotten UP UNTIL NOW from

100% DOES SUCK if you deliver it like you mean it!
>  Even with the single girls alone, there is a
>probability of a fight (and the general crowd in a bar finds me confronting
>for my arrogance even though I am not engaging them). Alex will tell you
>that guys in a group of 5 offered me a fight because of the number close I
>did when I went out with him after leaving you last Monday, and THEY DID
>KNOW HER. They just found me confronting to their sense of self.

That is so stupid. How old are these retards? They want to fight physically harm you because you are doing better than they
are? They DESERVE to be stomped to death if you ask me!
>My question to this is: why would a woman say that? Why would she want to
>limit yourself to less worthy men? This mentality leaves me perplexed and
>flabbergasted.  Could you or the others and the women on your list
>on this concept?  It's so hard to get a straight truthful answer on this.
>me, I've tried.

She thinks of herself as shit and believes he'd only leave her like
all the other guys did! So, she creates what she projects and
predicts! Sick, sick, SICK!
>Brother Diamond:
>Hey there. I've been messing around with nominalizations.
>and I don't exactly know what they are since I'm not in
>NLP per se... I know what Bishop's nominalizations are but
>could someone explain what they are for and some more
>in case a woman doesn't give you any trance words to

A nominalization is a linguistic term: it refers to the activity of
taking a process and turning it into a thing, thus removing control.

Example: My fear of women keeps me from approaching them.

"Fear" is really a process. It is something you do in your body and
mind, not an object like a rock or a twig or a tree.  In fact, there
is no "fear" there is only the process of "fearing".

We turn a nominalization back into a process by adding "ing".  So,
in the example, I would say to a student, "In what way is your
fearing keeping you from approaching women?"
>Has anyone else rented this movie yet?? and what were
>your impressions??

I enjoyed the movie. Did you notice how the woman turned Duncan into
a complete AFC by using SS language? She was talking to him about the
character Don Juan, and what an authority Duncan respected,
Kierkegaard, had to say. She said,

Her: Do you know what Kierkegaard said about Don Juan?
Him: No
Her: He said Don Juan had to love thousands of women because he was
afraid he could never truly be loved by ONE woman (Pacing his deep
emotional situation, establishing her authority!)
Her: Kierkegaard said that sooner or later, you have to take a leap
of faith...and decide to LOVE THIS PERSON!

(*word for word fuckin' quote, I think!) could see him shift......that is the moment she got him!
SS trumps Tao of Steve! But NONE of the reviewers of critics caught
it! I did...and so did the student I saw the movie with...we both went,
"Christ...did you just see that?"
>Sometimes I think we get "nexted" because hot women expect to be
>treated with "courtesy" by every guy (they literally think they are royalty
>just because they look good) so when you don't give them what they want
>they think you're a "jerk" or an "asshole".

I think that is a good explanation why so many of these chicks are
so angry.  Their sense of entitlement either bores them (because they
DO get what they want and that pisses them off...they are bored and
want a challenge) or they get the occasional challenge and don't know
how to handle it...they get confused! Poor widdle pussies!
>I think hoop constructions are somewhat similar to NEGS (okay as I said "I
>THINK" so don't flame me if you disagree even though I'd like to hear on
>this) - however while NEGS should ONLY be used on 9's and 10's (I FULLY
>agree with Mys on this), hoops can be layout along the entire scale (even
>though you probably won't be trying to sarge a 4, would you?) and can even
>be more effective on some women if performed correctly.

What I've been experimenting with recently is looking for the
woman's need to be needed and to be of service! Even some of the
hottest women have a need to feel needed, so try asking her for some
SMALL favor early on.  Something that requires her to some way
contribute her time, focus, effort, etc.  Not quite a "hoop" per se,
but similar and taps into the need to be connected and mother.
>Also I'm wondering has anyone tried the Solar Plexus touch- has it worked
>effectively?  I was doing a bit of revision today, and came up upon it.
>Wondered about timing on the raise, the touch.... Also, I thought a hand
>squeeze anchor is slightly tough (especially in an awkward situation like a
>restaurant or a retail store, whatever) so I'm wondering how effective you
>people have found other anchors to be?  I feel a lot more comfortable with
>an elbow or wrist anchor (random comment: apparently if you put your
>around a girl's wrist while she's giving you a BJ, she would also get
>tremendous "pleasure"...?)

I think the difficulty is in your mind. How is a hand-squeeze tough?
Just take her hand and squeeze it!
>(Commenting on Ross):
>  > No, it's more you are prepared, BEFORE the event, with sort of an
>  > "early warning radar". That is, an hour or so before something is
>  > scheduled with an HB, be prepared for the flake or bullshit in
>  > ADVANCE, including REHEARSING OUT LOUD what you are going to say, and
>  > behaviors you are going to do.  TRAIN THE WAY YOU FIGHT and you will
>If I'm preparing for her bullshit before our meeting, what am I
>saying to myself? (In other words, how am I training?)

Prepare for specific situations.  Like, "We have to make this an
early evening".

Have some canned responses ready. Such as, "No worries...we'll get
back to my place ASAP!"

or, "Whew...good. I was afraid you'd want more from tonight than I
was comfortable with" (Thanks to Bro Bishop for this one!~)


Brother Diamond:
I was going over the romantic hero theme and how Bishop creates it and
brings it to life in his work with women.  It got me thinking how it worked
because when I first ran into this theme I absolutely loved it and now I'm
into that direction with my ss. But seriously... has any guy ever thought
about why this romantic hero works so well FROM A GUY'S PERSPECTIVE? I mean
women love them because they can experience an adventure and experiences
they normally couldn't in life with an AFC, right?  But what propels guys to
become this way... to become what romance novels are all about? To live the
exciting life of an adventurer? Well, lo and behold if I didn't come up with
an amazing answer to that answer!!!

You see, I think the reason this theme works so well for men in SS is
because a big part of us (guys) WANTS TO BECOME THIS IN LIFE ALSO right? I
mean we all can recall a cool movie that had an exciting spy or
adventurer that lived his life and a woman pursued him and his exciting life
to win his heart right? Hell, even something like Total Recall if nothing
else... I
mean he didn't get a girl in the end but who hasn't said to themselves that
they wish they could be Arnold and live an adventure like that in life?
Doesn't that just make sense?

Generally speaking... to use Major Mark's ideal of a propulsion system... it
is women and how they are in our society that draw us to this adventurer
theme and it is our own desires and hopes in life to become this person of
excitement that also propels us into becoming it.  I dunno, maybe I think
about SS too much
: )  maybe it's just a crappy theory ....


>I rented a copy of "The Tao Of Steve" and thought it
>was enjoyable. The main character, Steve didn't go too
>much in the details of the art of seduction». Here was
>his basic rules:
>1. Remove all desire to have sex when you are with her
>2. Do something excellent in her presence
>3. Pullback (or retreat, or something that seemed
>reminiscent of F.J. Shark's give a sample of yourself
>then do the "takeaway")
>Steve didn't say specifically what he meant by doing
>something excellent in her presence, though the
>impression I got from the movie was that his appeal
>was that he is good with pre-school kids, in one scene
>where his "target" showed up to see him playing poker
>with them (substituting crayons for chips).

Actually, his name was Dex I think... he and his buddies model "Steve's".
: )

However, the bit about excellence.  It's simply demonstrating value to a

It took me a little while to figure out the cut to the poker scene.  It was
subtle.  Dex is EXCELLENT at BLUFFING (thus the game of Poker.)  He is a
total bullshitter (but an entertaining one) and you see it demonstrated
numerous times during the movie - "Oh, I'm a forensic anthropologist..."
>Has anyone else rented this movie yet?? and what were
>your impressions??

Yup, I liked it.  It made me recall a few occasions where I was a "Steve"
with HBs accidentaly (while really I was a full on AFC otherwise.)  For
whatever reason, I simply wasn't interested in these chicks (because they
were married, engaged, etc. - I was an AFC remember?) and so didn't do any
of the usual AFC shit to get in good with them.  On top of it, I *WAS*
interested in another chick who was NOT as attractive as the HB.  And, the
other chick was always a friend or someone in the same social circle - so my
being interested in the competition was always obvious to the HB.  That
drove these girls ***NUTS***.  Also, I was excellent with these chicks
because I wasn't interested in them and therefore not UPTIGHT around them...
which let my sense of humor really come to the forefront.  One said that
what she loved about me was that I could make her laugh so hard.

Now if I can just learn to show that disinterest when I really AM interested
in the HB... lol


I've heard a lot of bragging in the gone days about and from
women about 0 Night Stands. Need to make up my mind ok, I am 20, attractive
and need to get some now. I am sick of being lonely jack and sour of
relating to the bitches. I do herewith admit fear of asking babes to the
restroom or anywhere...


>> MindAuger:
>> OMG here's something fucking amazing, check it out.
>> I stumbled across this on an automotive website...
>> How delicious is!

These guys appear to be guilty of not setting the opportunity frame. Doh!
These voicemails only make sense from the 'dating' frame.

As a useful exercise for the student (me too, hehe), go through all these
clips and identify the attempts to use control mechanisms, as well as the
attempts to set a relationship frame.

Think about it like this:
if she simply called him and said "OMG, I'm so horny for you, please can I
come over to do the wild thing right now?"  How long would it be before he
called her back, and said either yes or no?

Instead she says stuff like:
"As a human being who once cared about me, please call me back."
which sets him into a certain frame if he simply complies with her request.


For those interested in FOXHUNTING: I have spent the last 6 hours reading
the ENTIRE online book of Roger's on (it's about 100 +
pages pasted into Microsoft Word).  The guy who wrote it is basically a
"chess master" but I liked most of what he had to say.  Very thorough yet
bits most of us probably already know.   Some might be valuable to us such
as the attraction rating scale that was devised known as CUPID - which seems
to have been through quite a bit of research.  Implementing this would give
us a bit more "practicability" over a 1-10 scale!!!  It could be slightly
confusing for "newbies" but could effectively tell us exactly what we are
trying to show and not state that the HB is a "10" or a "7".  The online
book is under the "library" section and it's free.  Give it a read!

I'm going to call up one of the "evil sisters" tomorrow (the
stuck up one),  if there's any quick advice I would love to hear it (I have
done any sarging over the phone, even though I have a few things planned I'm
gonna be a rookie).  Basically I'd like her to feel "immensely connected"
with me and simply "cannot resist my commands" and feel "tremendous
pleasure" to my "presence" on the phone.  I won't see her for the next 2
weeks, so I want her to call me everyday till then (I know I'm really
stretching this into being close to DEEP trance hypnosis but can it be done
over the phone with the right words undetected?)  I am hoping to reverse her
thoughts and secure her on a date with my buddy when we return to university
(I already have a modified SS pattern for this that I'm thinking of using
which basically includes time distortion, ambiguity, and a lead in) but
also would like to set her up for myself potentially (if it doesn't work out
for my friend) and have HER help me convince the other evil sister to blow
me. Hahaha hubba hubba  But I'm pretty clueless how to get around this as I
can't anchor over the phone, etc. (Besides perhaps making funny noises that
she'll remember? Hey, if Pavlov used his bell, I should be able to use make noises of the midnight strike..?!? lol)

cliff’s list advertisment section
Cliff’s Comment: For those of you who are just reading about this for the first time, I decided a couple of emails ago to add links to these emails.  The idea would be to get enough money in to hire someone to take over the administrative work (and also to buy things which would improve this list, such as proper mailing list software) for this list.  If you were going to buy the product anyway, just use the link that appears below and you are helping to keep this list going at no extra cost to anyone.



One of the best places for you to start your journey on becoming more successful with women would be to get David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating» e-book.  David (who posts here under the name "Sisonpyh" — which is "hypnosis" spelled backwards) is a good friend that I have known for several years now that I originally met through one of Ross’ Speed Seduction» seminars.  His posts here have been among the most outstanding contributions I have had over the years and his book (and the free bonuses) is highly recommended.

Ron Louis and David Copeland have been reading these emails for awhile and recently sent me their Mastery Program Tape series which I have finished listening to. It has some very good stuff on it and that, in combination with other pieces that you can pick up here and from the other products mentioned can be a help. For those who are just starting out learning how to deal with women, this is an excellent basic daily course to take you through the process of dealing with women. For those who are more advanced, you should pick up a few good ideas from this set of tapes.

Comments on this product from Tony B.:
I thought I might drop you a quick line regarding some of the more popular sites that have been seen within this "seduction community". After seeing several terrible reviews and "flames" from, I decided to make a decision for myself based upon my own ideas of what could be offered on the Seven Magic Words product and after several months of reading great novels about how to attract women and multiple posts about how women are most attracted to men, I STILL found the site to be beneficial. After joining the site, I was happy to learn all the new techniques that I have never seen on any list and that alone made it worth the money. I am not typically the type of person that spends money on a site especially a seduction site, I would rather pay for some audio or video, but the information that was offered was different and unequal to anything I have seen in the past.  At any rate, I know you wanted a review.. and I have actually come to know the owner, and he puts more attention in his members area than I would expect to see from any other site.

Not only does this next site give you an unconditional 1 year no risk money back guarantee, but it stands alone and it’s program is unmatched. Right now they’re doing a Free Trial period, and I’d take advantage of this while you can. The site reads "Learn the proven secrets for meeting, attracting, and seducing women. From A – Z, you’ll discover the most advanced techniques for picking up women ever developed." Check out their Free Trial (before it ends) and you’ll see why their members like this program so much.


Here’s another one which I think has been reviewed here in the past but I haven’t gone through the old emails to check. Do You Want To Know A Simple, Two Minute Hypnotic Technique That Lets YOU Secretly Put Any Woman Into An Instant Trance And Persuades Her To Ask YOU Out?

Advanced Macking has one of the most enticing websites. An updated review would also be welcome.

This one also looked pretty interesting. Information on breakups and loving-styles.

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The Ultimate Guide to Powerful Relationships is only $8.95 and looks very interesting. Comments, please.

Plus! Free Survey Results of Women Using Personals for SexThe Guide contains the following Inside Secrets: Replying to ads – how to get noticed and get a date for hot sex.   Placing ads – how to beat the competition and get lots of replies How to handle follow up communication to keep her interested. Examples of replies that worked on us. You can just copy and paste these into your ads or replies. Saves you time and increases your chances! A directory of the best websites for meeting hot women! Sick of chicks who are only into cybersex and nothing else! The Guide contains a list of the best adult personals sites.

A course by Jian Wang to teach you how to write hypnotic language to make others obey your command.

Arte’s New Sex Video is kind of interesting. He shows a lot about playing with a woman’s g spot (which he demonstrates on his comely girlfriend – but I could have done without seeing your dick, Arte). I will do a more extensive review after I have watched it again more carefully.

Check this out.

cliff’s free plugs section
Cliff’s Comment: The following are all recommended but clicking on the links and buying from them doesn’t send any money back here (it is also recommended that the sponsors of these sites consider setting this up — from the little experience I have had since I started the commercial section a couple of weeks ago, I think you are missing a lot of business by not doing this):


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